Paceline/drafting

[li10up]

I often ride in small groups of 2-5 riders. We all are realizing the benefits of drafting but we aren't very organized at it. Stronger riders will often pull ahead of the others and go out on their own. Or instead of dropping back after pulling someone will push out ahead to set the pace. I know how the pace line is "supposed" to work, generally, but I do have a couple of questions. When I come to a hill, even a small one I cannot maintain the same speed as we were doing on the flat. Are you supposed to try to maintain the same speed or just the same intensity? I think it should be intensity but am not certain. Also, if I'm in the lead and my speed drops going uphill , how do I know at what point I should drop back and let someone else take the lead?

[SheFly]

If you are pulling a paceline into a hill, don't pull off, even if your speed slows. If you do, you run the very real risk of not being able to jump back onto the end of the line! Instead, make the rest of the paceline conform to your speed, or go around you if you are too slow.

This is the ONE mantra I have tried to instill in many new paceline riders, and it has helped some of the women on our team stay in a fast paceline longer.

SheFly

[Geonz]

For a paceline to really work, you want to maintain the same intensity. CHarging off the front, to me, means that either you're not paying attention to the group dynamics, or you'd rather be riding by yourself, or your ego is dictating your behavior and you need to feel "better" than everybody else in the group. Maintaining speed going up a hill amounts to the same thing - you're adding a layer of intensity. If the group is up for it, fine - but that means knowing your group.

I try to pay close attention to the speed of a group I'm in (having the *huge* advantage of being on the flatlands!!) because of course you're going to increase in intensity when you're pulling, and if you overestimate how much harder you have to work, you will increase the speed. If I'm riding with relative newbees, I also try to read the folks in the group to figure out if somebody is really maxing out and won't be able to keep up; backing off just a hair can make the difference between a thrilling challenge and feeling completely blown. (If I'm not riding with relative newbees, I'm just tryin' to keep up ) So I guess I'd talk to the group about trying to have a real, working paceline... could be there are others who are also a little frustrated with it.

[guest1]

Please remember when your intensity changes, so does everyone else's in the paceline. In other words, if you are leading the paceline and starting to climb, you are NOT the only one who is struggling to maintain the same intensity as on the flats -- all those people behind you are struggling too! Believe me, they are just HAPPY that they are not the one in the front at that exact moment! They will thank you later when you get to pull behind them!

And YES, do NOT pull out on a hill or right before climbing. Not only will you have a hard time getting back in the paceline, you will throw-off the entire momentum of the paceline, possibly causing a complete breakdown or even a crash because EVERYONE behind you is affected by your actions and struggling to keep the paceline going. A sudden break of momentum can destroy the entire line. On very steep climbs, it has been my experience that the paceline breaks up anyway, just because the intensity is too difficult to maintain.

[Eden]

Unless it is a very small hill, it is likely that everyone will slow to some extent. One thing you can try on smaller, shorter hills is standing for a few pedal strokes to keep your speed up, but please be careful when doing this. Practice pulling the bike forward as you stand so that you don't shoot the bike back into the person behind you. As the others said, on steeper hills the paceline generally breaks up, with everyone climbing in their own comfort zones.

To get the paceline to really work you need to get everyone to agree that they will not get frustrated with the idea that they aren't putting out their top effort at every second - that's the whole idea behind a paceline, you get to rest a while, then you take your turn. Keep the pulls short (30 seconds!) and the people who want to pull will be less likely to get bored and want to pull ahead when its not their turn. When you really get it going good everyone will be able to go faster - further and it will be fun!

[IFjane]

This is a great thread. I am often the only woman in our group and am nowhere near the strongest rider. I can lead the paceline on the flat (something we don't have much of around here), but tend to slow down on a climb. The strategies discussed here will help me next time around.

us_wr - where are you located? I see you say your are in Central VA - near Madison?

[KayTee]

I agree, this is the kind of topic I love to learn from. I would add that sometimes paceline etiquette seems to vary depending on cyclists in your area or the type of group you're riding with on a given day. When I started road cycling, I was told that it's bad form to pull off right in front of a hill. At the same time, you don't want to slow the pace too much, either. So my strategy is to try to time my pulls (on a known route anyway) where I know I can maintain the group's pace, and hopefully not be in front on a really steep hill. I, too, am often the only woman in my groups. We have some strong hammerheads who often stay at the front for miles, but I figure I'm OK if I can contribute shorter pulls according to terrain and how I'm feeling. Better than sitting in and never working.

[DebW]

What's the usual etiquette for swapping leads? Is it the decision of the leader or the 2nd in line? What's the signal for a swap? I don't ride pacelines often enough to have this figured out.

[RoadRaven]

As a woman, and only a relatively short time of racing, and with much to go still in the way of increasing my speed, I feel no shame at all for "sitting in". Most of the groups I ride with are mostly men.

If I am with people who dont know me who are biking faster than I am capable of, I explain I am happy to take a turn at the front but I will likely drop the overall speed.

If in a race situation and I have been sitting in because I cannot pull, I also tell those I am with I will not contest the finish or any places.

(Of course, sitting in and feigning tiredness is also a tactic and I have been known to do this once... and to deliberately not come to the front in a sprint finish so I can try "sling-shotting" past as we approach the line).

Just a reminder, with the several threads currently active regarding aero-bars - NEVER use your aeros in a bunch/peloton/when drafting. Its is tooooo easy to cause a crash.

Also remember to watch your wheels and try not to "half-wheel" if possible.

One last thing... when in a bunch it is very likely that at some stage - on one of your bunch rides - you will get tapped from the rider beside you... your hips might connect, or your handlebars might connect. Keep your cool and stay straight. A tap like this from the side should not cause a crash unless you panic and start wiggling/swerving.
It is probably useful to ride with someone you trust, on an unused road, and just practice coming into contact like this if you are nervous about it. A tap from the side should not send you or anyone else out of control unless one of you panics about it.

[RoadRaven]

What's the usual etiquette for swapping leads? Is it the decision of the leader or the 2nd in line? What's the signal for a swap? I don't ride pacelines often enough to have this figured out.

Protocol says that the leader should pull out and drop speed slightly while everyone else keeps at the same speed and the leader hops back in at the back and "rests" until everyone else has done the same and the first leader will find themselves at the front.

Watch some elite riders in your local club - they should be doing it this way... or watch some pro or semi-pro races (like Giro or Le Tour) - you can see some beautiful examples of this.

When a pace-line is going well the leader should only be on the front for 20-30 seconds... however, in club rides here the leader sometimes hangs on for minutes until they get tired. The purpose of a paceline is to conserve the whole bunches energy, therefore you shoul get off the front BEFORE you get tired.

However, when I have been on training rides or in race situations where I am not strong enough to take a turn at the front, what seems to happen is that the riders directly behind the leader pull out, speed up and take a turn that way.

[li10up]

Good info. So if I'm understanding it right, if I'm in the lead on a hill just try to maintain the same intensity and don't worry about slowing. The "climbers" will pass if they want and we should all just regroup after the top of the hill.

I appreciate the input. Thanks.

[Eden]

What's the usual etiquette for swapping leads? Is it the decision of the leader or the 2nd in line? What's the signal for a swap? I don't ride pacelines often enough to have this figured out.

In general its the decision of the person on the front to pull off. If its a group that has ridden together a lot and the paceline is working very smoothly the leader may merely pull off. If the group is unsure there are a few signals you can use - the most common is the "funky chicken" - as you pull off you waggle your elbow a few times - but sometimes this is too subtle and people who are also worried about riding close, watching traffic, etc dont see it, so I take my whole hand off the bar and wave the next person (or people if the paceline is double) through.

Of course if someone is sitting on the front and going progressively slower, or zoning out its perfectly fine to yell hey! rotate! up to them.

As a woman, and only a relatively short time of racing, and with much to go still in the way of increasing my speed, I feel no shame at all for "sitting in". Most of the groups I ride with are mostly men.

When I ride with my husband's team occasionaly I also have no shame about not taking turns at the front. We have an unspoken agreement. They don't go easy on me, but they don't expect me to pull either. In any case I'm only 5' tall so I'm a lousy draft Usually I stick behind the hubby and we pull off the front together.

If in a race situation and I have been sitting in because I cannot pull, I also tell those I am with I will not contest the finish or any places.

generally if I have to sit in I'm not in any position to contest the sprint anyway , but seriously at my size I don't usually try to pull the peleton, but if I am in a breakaway I'll do my fair share of the work. If the person(s) I'm in the break with is so strong that I'm just hanging on then there's no way I'll outsprint them anyway.

[RoadRaven]

EDIT: this post is in response to li10up ... my connection is so slow today it took me ten minutes to posta reply and Eden got in first!
Hi Eden


Yip... up a hill just make sure you are on the left and set a steady pace you can achieve at - sometimes others will pass you, sometimes they'll just sit in beside you.

Like Eden says, if you choose to stand during the climb, keep your pace steady and keep the wieght balance right because if you have someone close behind you it can be easy to connect with them. Standing can cause you "pause" in mid pedal or to seemingly lurch back a fraction... practice it before you do it with others in a bunch

[RoadRaven]

generally if I have to sit in I'm not in any position to contest the sprint anyway , but seriously at my size I don't usually try to pull the peleton, but if I am in a breakaway I'll do my fair share of the work. If the person(s) I'm in the break with is so strong that I'm just hanging on then there's no way I'll outsprint them anyway.

LOL... me neither!

But I tell them just in case they are stewing about me hanging on or trying to factor me into their tactics (is she actually wasted, or is she just foxing us?).
I do like just 'hanging on' - I feel some weird kind of accomplishment... YES! I managed to ride with (notice that in my head, the words change from "hang on to" to "ride with" ) the fast ones!!!