Sub-5'0" riders?

[Kimmyt]

I'm trying to help a friend of mine get her first road bike. Problem is, she is very small. At 4'11" she is having a hard time finding bikes in her size. One guy who she knows through a friend (I guess he owns a shop, I wasn't really clear on this) had her sized into a Jr. Bianchi with 24" wheels, which just seems really small, even though she is a small woman with a short torso.

I am hoping she can get into something with at least 650c wheels so that she will not be constantly left behind when riding with those that have larger wheels.

I took her to my not-so-LBS and they sized her on a 43cm Trek (all they had in that size) but I don't know how I feel about Sora components, and was hoping to get her on at least Tiagra, but it seems most WSD bikes are in the very basic entrylevel and then several steps up, at too high a price tag on her.

So I've been looking around and comparing geometry. She said she felt ok on the 43 (the problem is that she barely knows how to ride a bike, and took it for a spin of about 1 second, so she wouldn't really know how it felt since all she is used to is a comfort bike).

I was wondering if anyone has any imput from the perspective of being a smaller rider and what solutions worked for them?

FYI she is looking around the $1000 range and I have compared specs for some of the Specialized bikes with the Trek and they are somewhat comparable (I'm not terribly good with geometrys so I can't really pinpoint exact differences and what they mean, all I can do is compare numbers).

Thanks!

K.

[sbctwin]

I am 4'10"...I have a Lightspeed Bella with 650c wheels. I had to shop around for a bikestore that was willing to work with me. I had the drop handlebars changed over to straight bars. I could not comfortably apply the brakes without changing gears when I had the drops and the arrangement was already the smallest made. My lbs worked with me to find a fit that was comfortable for me. Now that I have been riding the bike for a year, I think I would like to get the drops back on.

[Triskeliongirl]

I am hoping she can get into something with at least 650c wheels so that she will not be constantly left behind when riding with those that have larger wheels.

Why would she be constantly left behind by those with larger wheels? Speed is dictated by home many watts of power she is able to apply to the pedals, and not wheel size. Folks ride with bike fridays, and even win races with only 20" wheels. But, when you use unusually sized rear wheels you do need to make sure to have gearing that compensates for the different wheel sized. For example, BFs often use a capreo rear hub/cluster which accepts a 9/26 casette in order to get a nice high gear. She may also consider a bike friday, a smaller terry, a Luna, lots of options out there. Fit, is critical though, if her body will be comfortable enough to go fast, as is choice of frame material (in terms of getting the right balance between weight, stiffness and comfort). Terrys use a 24" front wheel and 700c rear wheel so you can use normal gearing (i.e. that is designed for a 700c wheel) but the 24" front wheel allows for the short top tube she needs without compromises to frame geometry or toe clip overlap. I highly recommend them. I have two terry isis bikes, one in steel and one in titanium. Yesterday on my steel isis I was keeping up with 30-something fit men (not the fastest riders in our club, but moderate ones) and dropping the women my age.

[mimitabby]

trisk,
if she barely knows how to ride, she's going to be left behind for a while no matter what kind of bike she rides.

[Triskeliongirl]

trisk,
if she barely knows how to ride, she's going to be left behind for a while no matter what kind of bike she rides.

Agreed, but I just want to dispel the myth that little wheels would be a problem.

[Eden]

I'm just at your limit at 5'0" here. I have 2 44cm 700c wheel bikes and one 47cm 650c wheel bike. I have had to go with shorter stems on all of my bikes. Even at my height I think I've got longer legs and a very short torso and arms so I really need to go small with my frames.

If there is any place near that your friend could try a Fuji? That is the bike with the shortest TT that I've found and can possibly be found with the better components and price range your friend is looking for. They actually have some inbetween models in addition to their top of the line which is nice. Performance sells them, if there is one in your area, and they will order the right size for her to try without obligating her to buy the bike.

Another woman on my team, who I think may be even shorter than I am, has one of the 43cm Treks. She did put a super short stem on it - she's got a 60mm stem(she's looking for a 70 - I have a 90 on my Fuji and 80s on my other bikes)!

A lot of people balk at putting very short stems on bikes, they say it affects the handling, but my bike fitter told me that it was OK- that a shorter stem would still be proportional with my little bike and I haven't had any trouble with any of my bikes feeling twitchy.

It can be hard to find really little frames, I know I went through it a few years ago, but more manufacuters are making small bikes in more models these days so there is hope. When you look around on the internet and compare frame geometries, one of the more important measurements for us folks with short torso/arms you'll want to look at is the effective top tube. The smaller that number the shorter the reach.

*Edit* - I've done a little checking and it looks like this year's Fuji models have longer top tubes than the one I got in 04" - that's a bit dissapointing.

[Triskeliongirl]

It can be hard to find really little frames, I know I went through it a few years ago, but more manufacuters are making small bikes in more models these days so there is hope. When you look around on the internet and compare frame geometries, one of the more important measurements for us folks with short torso/arms you'll want to look at is the effective top tube. The smaller that number the shorter the reach..

I agree that top tube measurement is important, but don't ignore seat tube angle. Many manufacturers when they shorten the top tube, steepen the seat tube, but that effectively lengthens the reach, assuming you need to then jack your saddle further back to get the same KOP meausrement. So, when you compare TTs, be sure to add 1cm for each degree increase in STA to get a comparison of reach. Another thing to watch for is very slack head tube angles. This eliminates toe clip overlap, but makes the bike super stable. The trails on many small womens frames are in excess of 6 which is too stable for my liking, but YMMV.

[East Hill]

Just for my .02 worth--I have a 44 cm Specialized Dolce Elite which I love for fitting me properly. However, I understand that your friend may consider this a bit expensive. I tried the Trek WSD in the smaller size and did not care for the feel.

I have two other bicycles which are Terry-like in that they both have the 24" front wheel, and 700c rear wheel. One of these was a thrift shop find (for $20!) and the other from the Seattle Craigslist, $120. I personally think that your friend may really want to check out the current Terry bikes. I like the two Terry-style bikes I have quite a lot. There are two drawbacks with the Terry bikes--one, they aren't found everywhere the way Trek or Specialized are, and two, it is necessary to have two tyre sizes on hand in case of problems.

I think your friend will just have to check them out for herself. I am surprised actually that you managed to find a shop with a 43cm Trek for her to test ride!

It's still tough for those of us who are, er, short. Nothing more annoying then listening to men whine about how those bikes are 'tiny' when they're talking about a 49 or 50 cm frame--it's still too large for me, bud!

East Hill

[Kimmyt]

Good news, it looks like she spoke to the guy who had initially wanted to put her in the Junior and he will try to build her up something in around a 43 cm frame, so hopefully he will be a good bike fitter for her. We will see what happens. I am hesitant to get too involved, as this is her decision. It is made somewhat more difficult b/c English is not her first language and sometimes people who don't know her well have difficulty understanding her so I worry that she won't get things explained correctly or that she will be taken advantage of. For now I will trust the bike shop guy she knows (friend of a friend I guess) and we will see what he sets her up with. I will relay your suggestions for a Terry, but at 1500 for the lowest end model they have I fear she may not be up for it....

Triskeliongirl, please explain something to me (me and Physics never really got along well in college....) if the same rider were to ride two bikes, one with 650c wheels and one with 700c wheels, at the same energy output level, would the rider travel the same distance? Thanks!

K.

[Triskeliongirl]

Triskeliongirl, please explain something to me (me and Physics never really got along well in college....) if the same rider were to ride two bikes, one with 650c wheels and one with 700c wheels, at the same energy output level, would the rider travel the same distance? Thanks!

K.

YES! It is true that with smaller wheels you need to be sure that you have the appropriate choice of gears, since most of the stuff out there was made with 700c wheels in mind, but that is the point of gears. You may need to select a different gear to compensate for the change in tire diameter, but assuming you select the same gear ratio and input the same effort you will move forward the same distance. To see for yourself, read about gearing and play with the calculator at sheldon brown's website. While its expensive to buy a terry new, they are often available on ebay for much less, in part due to a bias that many women have that they want a bike with the same size wheels, or 700c wheels. But it is hard to buy used the first time when you don't know what you are doing.

[Eden]

Triskeliongirl, please explain something to me (me and Physics never really got along well in college....) if the same rider were to ride two bikes, one with 650c wheels and one with 700c wheels, at the same energy output level, would the rider travel the same distance? Thanks!

K.

I'm not Trisk, but I can give it a go - the more important thing to worry about rather than wheel size is gear inches (don't get me wrong -wheel size does play a part in this *but* its not the most important part). If you have the proper gearing on a 650 bike you will still go the same distance with the same number of pedal strokes - your wheel will just turn more times. When you see someone with 650 wheels (or smaller) spinning like mad in their top gear to keep up then they don't have gearing that is big enough to compensate for the smaller wheels. To get nice representation of what gear inches mean and what affect they have you an try this calculator - the second calculation will give you cadence+ mph for each gear combination (though it can be a bit confusing to set up). Try it for 700's and then 650's and compare.
http://www.panix.com/~jbarrm/cycal/cycal.30f.html

btw - since its my winter bike and I'm supposed to go easier (I figured I'd want the small gears for spinning up hills and I wouldn't need the big ones since I'm not having to do any sprinting) I didn't bother to change any of the gearing on my 650 bike and I can't really say I notice any appreciable difference. I'm not feeling like I'm spinning to fast or that I can't keep up.

[CR400]

Worry more about the fit and the proper gearing to go with the smaller wheel size. As far as sora or tiagra they are both good compontents they are just not as "good" as the higher ultegra or Dur Ace. The biggers problem with the sora parts is they only go up to 8 speed, while tiagra you get 9 so you can interchange it with higher grade shimano parts. Note higher grade usually means lighter and made of aluminum and such. I have come to realize as long as it says Shimano, Campy, or SRAM it is quality and will work, if it doesn't then beware.

[Triskeliongirl]

One more tip, at the terry website there is a section where folks buy and sell each other used terry bikes. Another good resource to perhaps get more bike for the money.