Custom wheels.....where to start?

[indysteel]

So I posted a question yesterday about whether I should buy a pair of Campy Zondas on sale at Lickbike.com. After talking with them and doing some further thinking/reading, I'd really like to explore the world of handbuilt wheels. I have some feel for what options are out there, but it's kind of overwhelming. I am leaning toward Mike Garica or Gravywheels as the builder, although there are a couple of others that come highly recommended. More fundamentally, however, I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for in a wheelset because I'm not entirely sure of the various "ride qualities" that are even possible.

I want a good "all-around wheel." I don't race, but I would love some wheels that accelerate quickly and stay up to speed. I weigh between 115 and 118 most days and could easily go with a a low-spoke count, especially since most of the roads I ride are in decent shape. Climbing (although I'm working on it) is not my strength, but I'm not sure I really want a wheel built specifically for climbing since most of my riding is done on the flats. As a small rider, I am easily affected by crosswinds and after demo-ing some Mavic Ksyrium SL with relatively wide, bladed spokes, I know that's not the way to go. My favorite ride is a long ride so comfort is also an issue, but is that driven more by the wheels or by the tires and tire pressure? Oh, and I'd like keep the cost at or below $500.

So, does anybody have any advice or words of wisdom/caution? I'm prepared to take my time with this decision but I find that the less I'm riding because of the weather, the stronger the itch to upgrade!

Thanks.

Kate

[Kathi]

Call Jeremy at 505-699-430. He built my wheelset for my Serotta. He understood my needs, much like yours, and built me a nice wheelset for a 105lb rider.

The shop is in Santa Fe, NM.

My SO is so impressed with how my hill climbing and speed improved that he ordered a set of wheels for himself!

[Kathi]

I can post pics of the wheelet, if you want.

[spokewench]

Ask around of cyclists in your area. There is usually a shop that has someone who does a really good job on wheels. Go talk to them. They can lead you in the correct direction. By your email, you have thought about all the things that you need to be be able to voice what you want.

Yes, Mavic SSL's are difficult to ride in a cross wind! I live in Flagstaff, ARizona where it is really windy most of the time ESPECIALLY IN THE SPRING! When I first started riding my very light Giant TCR with Mavic Ksyrium SSL's, it took me a while to get more used to the fact that I'm really light on that bike and the wheels really catch the wind! Sometimes, it still takes me for a ride!

[indysteel]

Thanks Kathi. I remember when you posted info about your Serotta and your wheels but was having trouble locating those old posts. I'd love to see pics. How much did they cost if I may ask?

I will ask around to see who does it locally. I know the LBS where I got my bike builds wheels, but I think I'd rather have someone who's a full-time builder do them.

[Cassandra_Cain]

Call Jeremy at 505-699-430. He built my wheelset for my Serotta. He understood my needs, much like yours, and built me a nice wheelset for a 105lb rider.

The shop is in Santa Fe, NM.

My SO is so impressed with how my hill climbing and speed improved that he ordered a set of wheels for himself!

Hey that's my town

So if Indy is willing to bribe me, (with something like a TE coupon! j/k! ), then I'll go talk to Jeremy myself and put in a good word.

[SadieKate]

John Ackley of www.bfwg.net has built 3 sets of our wheels. I just got the most recent set because the wheels on one of my roadbikes were beating the crud out of me and I was bouncing around too much on the descents -- and I weigh 135 lbs.

Topolinos are known for their silky smooth ride - laterally stiff but ever so comfy on rough roads. Anyway, I told John that I had Topos on another bike and wanted to get a ride much like them or another set of handbuilt Mavic Open Pro/Chorus wheels. I set a high standard and, boy, did he deliver.

These are the specs:
Here's the down-low on the wheels you ordered for Sarah:
Velocity AeroHead rims (28 hole OC rear / 24 hole front), black ano with machined sidewalls
Black H1 hubs by White Industries
Black CX-Ray spokes by Sapim, with silver alloy nipples
Velocity Veloplugs
Wheels will be built 2-cross, front and rear

I can say enough about his wheelbuilding skills or his business practices and communication. Absolutely superb. I have a set of his wheels on an XC mtbike and they took some abuse at Moab this summer with flying colors. Frankly, I think Gravy's prices are high based his name factor. I got a quote from him for mtb wheels last year and was rather blown away. There are equally superb wheelbuilders out there.

[SadieKate]

Kate, some technical info also:

Low profile rims produce a less harsh ride - Mavic Open Pro is probably the best known for this.

Offcenter (OC) rims offer more strength because it allows more equal tensioning of the spokes from side to side. Velocity Aerohead OC are well known for this combined with a low profile.

Hubs - a difference in flange height from drive side to non-drive side helps with spoke tensioning. That's why White Industries hubs get such great reviews and wheelbuilders love them.

Spokes - it not just the number. The number of cross, the butting, the weight of the spoke, etc., come into play. Radial spoking of a front wheel can produce a very harsh ride.

Hope this helps.

[DebW]

Velocity plugs

Plugs? What's this?

I'll admit that every wheel I've ever built has been 36 hole and 3-cross, except for tandems or loaded tourers which might get 40 hole and 4 cross. I need to try something new someday.

White Industries H1 hub: the photo on their web page looks like this hub requires minimal, if any, dishing because the non-drive side flange is set in almost as much as the drive side flange. True? Not sure which would be stronger: minimizing the dish, or putting the flange as far out as possible.

I was reading a wheel building manual recent which highly recommended butted spokes for their stretching properties.

[SadieKate]

Whoops, they're actually called Veloplugs.

http://www.veloplug.com/

I was really impressed with how easily the tires mounted on the new wheels because there was more space for the tire bead. Of course, that 5 grams of weight is ever so critical also.

[SadieKate]

White Industries H1 hub: the photo on their web page looks like this hub requires minimal, if any, dishing because the non-drive side flange is set in almost as much as the drive side flange. True? Not sure which would be stronger: minimizing the dish, or putting the flange as far out as possible.

I was reading a wheel building manual recent which highly recommended butted spokes for their stretching properties.

Deb, John gives a very succinct explanation about the flanges on his product page. Read the paragraph for race wheels. http://www.bfwg.net/BFWG/Products.html

Yes, butted spokes can be much cushier than straight gauge because of that elasticity. The spokes on my cross bike are straight gauge. Ow, ow, ow. Of course, they were built for the average consumer who weights more than I do.

[indysteel]

Sadie Kate, great info. Thanks so much. I've been reading reviews of various hubs and rims. I keep coming back to Velocity Aerohead/Velocity Aerohead OC. That's actually what Robin at Lickbike recommended. I haven't read up on White Industries' hubs but will. Actually, I like the sound of your build quite a bit! As you might guess, I get beat up on rough roads and would love to a wheel that softens the blow. What tires are you using? Also, how did you decide between a 2x and 3x spoke pattern? Is it a function of your size and weight?

Maybe you can explain to me why Robin suggested that I use Shimano Ultegra hubs. In part, he was trying to get me into a wheel for about $400, but he also said something about Campy changing their hubs for 2007. I wasn't following him and stupidly didn't ask him to clarify. I run Campy on my bike and, while he indicated that it wouldn't be a problem to run a Shimano cassette, it is a bit of a sacrilege to me! In any event, it seems like there are hubs out there that I'd prefer over Shimano.

Kate

[SadieKate]

I went with the cross pattern John suggested. How's that for technical? Having 2 sets of wheels from him, I trusted what he was saying. I ride on a lot of chipseal and rural farm roads, plus California sends all its road repair tax money to SoCal so you can imagine what the roads are like in NoCal.

John had me take out the bike for which I wanted new wheels and swap around wheel sets to make sure that I wasn't feeling the ride harshness in the frame as this could have actually been the real cause of my unhappiness. There were immediate and noticeable differences with the Topos on the bike. Therefore, I knew new wheels would change the ride.

There are conversion kits to use Shimano on Campy-compatible hubs but not vice versa (I think I have this right). If you don't see ever using Shimano on these wheels, I don't know why Robin would recommend Ultegra except to meet a price point or if he doesn't like the new hubs from Campy. So go back and ask.

My wheels fall into 2 categories: 1) built by a full time master wheelbuilder and have never needed additional work and 2) those that were NOT built by a full time master wheelbuilder and with the exception of my Topos 100% have needed more work. Therefore, I do like the fact that you want someone who is a fulltime wheelbuilder. There are those that say "anyone can build a wheel" but I want a master craftsman building the wheels that I'm descending on at 45+ mph. A superbly built set of wheels for someone our size shouldn't go out of true forever and a day. I have wheels that are 25 years old and still perfectly true - because a truly skilled builder attuned to every nuance crafted them; wheelbuilding can be elevated to an art.

Your wheelbuilder of choice should be able to articulate to you why s/he is recommending a particular build - and explain it to you in English. Ask lots of questions until it makes sense or go find another builder.

[indysteel]

Ooooh. I just took a look at White Industries' hubs. Very, very pretty. Not that pretty is everything, but still....

[SadieKate]

WI hubs definitely have a high drool factor rating. Glad to see you have excellent taste.