Deputy kills 2, 1 in critical cond.

[salsabike]

Well said, Chris.

[PamNY]

And, as you guys are all human here, I hope you never turn around to see why your kid is crying and take your eyes off the road for a minute and hit someone. I hope you never talk on your cell phone, change the CD, swat at a fly, eat a cheeseburger, or spill a cold drink on your lap and mow over someone walking on the shoulder in your moment of inattention. Those things happen,

You make a good point, but you should have left out the cellphone and the cheeseburger. I would only use my phone while driving in a true emergency, and I certainly wouldn't eat a sandwich.

Pam

[kenyonchris]

You make a good point, but you should have left out the cellphone and the cheeseburger. I would only use my phone while driving in a true emergency, and I certainly wouldn't eat a sandwich.

Pam

Trust me, you are in the minority. Lots of people eat a cheeseburger while talking on the phone while in the car. I can't stop someone for multitasking while driving, but I see it ALL the time.
Sometimes even burritos.

[tctrek]

MY heart goes out to the cyclists, the families, and the cop who hit them (unless he KNOWINGLY hit them, which I didn't see any evidence of)

He didn't KNOWINGLY hit them because he was asleep and he didn't know anything. But he did KNOWINGLY drive while he was overwhelmingly sleepy. Most people at sometime in their life work long hours, or are on a long road trip and find themselves getting sleepy at the wheel. A reasonable person recognizes that and pulls over and rests. But he kept on driving even though he was sleepy!! IMHO, that's as KNOWINGLY as it gets.

I just don't think this is the same as talking on a cell phone or eating a cheeseburger. Sure, in the blink of an eye you can look away and have an ACCIDENT. You don't have time to react and boom, it's over.

But it takes minutes to fall asleep - you have warning signals that sleep is about to take you over. You roll down your window, turn up the radio, drink coffee, try to prevent yourself from going to sleep. But there comes a time, maybe a minute or two before you actually fall asleep that you KNOW that it is inevitable, that you can't fight it anymore. That's when you pull over. You just don't keep driving when you reach that point.

[snapdragen]

But it takes minutes to fall asleep - you have warning signals that sleep is about to take you over.

Not really, and not for all people. I've known people that can fall asleep in seconds, one friend in particular can drop off without warning. Yes, it's happened while we were in the car, I realized what had happened, woke him up and had him pull over so I could drive.

[Eden]

Trust me, you are in the minority. Lots of people eat a cheeseburger while talking on the phone while in the car. I can't stop someone for multitasking while driving, but I see it ALL the time.
Sometimes even burritos.

I too never, never use a cell phone while driving and certainly wouldn't eat a cheeseburger... I take driving very seriously and I still think anyone who kills out of negligence, whether they fall asleep, are rummaging through a bag or even comforting a crying child (ask MMQFC if it makes here feel any better that the driver that ran a light and hit her was tending to a baby - NO, if you need to do something distracting like that PULL OVER) should lose their license permanently. I know at that point its a little late, but it sure will stop them from multi-tasking while they drive ever again.

(btw I didn't mean to imply that bike cop was a demotion, but rather that if they felt they needed to demote him they could reduce his rank/salary, but a better job for him to do than to sit at a desk and file evidence would be to be put on bike patrol)

Honestly I don't care what profession the guy was in - he did something dangerous and negligent in a car that resulted in two deaths. He shouldn't keep his license. As for his gun.... he didn't do something unsafe with that.... I don't see the need for him to have to turn it in, unless the position that they gave him means he is no longer entitled to carry it.

I don't think police are particularly responsible for dangerous drivers. Their hands are pretty tied - they can't do usually do anything until after there has been an incident and our laws and punishments are very, very weak. We have too easily accepted cars as a way of life, rather than than a serious privilege that can have serious consequences if abused.

[tctrek]

Not really, and not for all people. I've known people that can fall asleep in seconds, one friend in particular can drop off without warning. Yes, it's happened while we were in the car, I realized what had happened, woke him up and had him pull over so I could drive.

That brings up an interesting point... should someone who knows they can fall asleep in seconds without warning take extra special care not to drive when they are tired? It's like, if you have bad vision you know not to drive without your glasses. Why tempt fate and make a careless decision to drive when you haven't had enough rest?

[Eden]

If they are narcoleptic (meaning they can fall asleep at any time without warning) I think it falls under the category of epilepsy and they probably should not be driving at all.....

[kenyonchris]

I too never, never use a cell phone while driving and certainly wouldn't eat a cheeseburger... I take driving very seriously and I still think anyone who kills out of negligence, whether they fall asleep, are rummaging through a bag or even comforting a crying child (ask MMQFC if it makes here feel any better that the driver that ran a light and hit her was tending to a baby - NO, if you need to do something distracting like that PULL OVER) should lose their license permanently. I know at that point its a little late, but it sure will stop them from multi-tasking while they drive ever again.

(btw I didn't mean to imply that bike cop was a demotion, but rather that if they felt they needed to demote him they could reduce his rank/salary, but a better job for him to do than to sit at a desk and file evidence would be to be put on bike patrol)

Honestly I don't care what profession the guy was in - he did something dangerous and negligent in a car that resulted in two deaths. He shouldn't keep his license. As for his gun.... he didn't do something unsafe with that.... I don't see the need for him to have to turn it in, unless the position that they gave him means he is no longer entitled to carry it.

I don't think police are particularly responsible for dangerous drivers. Their hands are pretty tied - they can't do usually do anything until after there has been an incident and our laws and punishments are very, very weak. We have too easily accepted cars as a way of life, rather than than a serious privilege that can have serious consequences if abused.

Are you kidding me? I am totally responsible for dangerous drivers. I stop dangerous drivers that are weaving, speeding, failing to signal, drunk, stoned, or inattentive. If I waited for them to crash, I wouldn't be doing my job. In fact, most accidents are just that...inattention. I put it on my report more than anything else. Very few of them are actually dangerous drivers, a great majority have clean driving records. We CATCH the dangerous drivers because they give us reason to. It is the person driving safely that we can do nothing about until an ACCIDENT, hopefully not a tragic one, happens.

Of course, it is not a right to drive a car. If you drink and drive, I snatch that license away and you have to go to court to get it back. And if you are in prison for manslaughter, it is hard to drive a car. I just think that the judicial system judges, not us.

There are a lot of responsible drivers that have accidents. And yes, should be held accountable for it. That is not the issue. The issue is that he is no more or less responsible than the average person in that it was an ACCIDENT.

[Trek420]

Most people at sometime in their life work long hours, or are on a long road trip and find themselves getting sleepy at the wheel. A reasonable person recognizes that and pulls over and rests. But he kept on driving even though he was sleepy!! IMHO, that's as KNOWINGLY as it gets.

I have a compression fractured spine because of this kinda thing. Long road trip, driver recovering from a cold, taking cold medicine and declining to stop or let the two adult drivers spell him. He drifted off the road, lost control, we flipped over .... for those of you in CA, OR, WA we ended up backwards though right side up on Highway 5.

Was it his fault or mine for not insisting he pull over & sleep or relinquish the wheel? I don't know. Was it his fault or mine because I had my seatbelt off to be more comfortable sleeping That's my bad.

You can bet the seat belt goes on before the car keys go in now.

The driver was my brother.

I've so looooong ago forgiven him. Instead I feel lucky to be alive, every day is gravy. And in a way the crash is responsible for my cycling because when the Dr. said "you'll have arthritis in your spine soon" I said "oh no I won't" and began working out.

As people work longer hours these days, drive tougher commutes in this economy to reach any job available, and yes ... read TE long into the night there are a lot more tired drivers out there. Driving tired can be as bad as drunk driving from what I've read.

Whatever happens in the court or court of public opinion I hope the officer remembers for the rest of his life he's "Living for 3", himself and the 2 riders lost. This was a great loss for their family and friends and the world. For example I could not help thinking while watching the Olympic women's road cycling that she was supposed to be there. and I'm sure her family thought the same.

[kenyonchris]

[QUOTE=tctrek;434781]He didn't KNOWINGLY hit them because he was asleep and he didn't know anything. But he did KNOWINGLY drive while he was overwhelmingly sleepy. Most people at sometime in their life work long hours, or are on a long road trip and find themselves getting sleepy at the wheel. A reasonable person recognizes that and pulls over and rests. But he kept on driving even though he was sleepy!! IMHO, that's as KNOWINGLY as it gets.[quote]

No, it isn't, in the color of the law. Perhaps reckless, but not knowing, if that is honestly the cause of the accident.

I have never fallen asleep at the wheel, knock on wood. But I certainly have been really tired, I work 12 hour shifts, half the year it is 7p-7a. I stop and get a coke or whatever, but I am still out there. God help me if I were caught sleeping, and if I did sleep I might sleep through someone needing my help.
NO ONE IS PERFECT IN STAYING ON 100 PERCENT OF THE TIME!!! If you haven't had a close call, ya'll are better than I am. Usually we wipe our brows, say a prayer, and move on. In this case it was tragic. He should be held accountable for it, but it is far be it from us to sit here and say he is as guilty as someone who aimed for them and ran them down. It doesn't make them less dead, for sure, but it was an accident.
My exasperated sigh is only because I am hearing the person who never talks on the cell phone, the person who is always attentive, the person who says to herself, "say, I am sleepy! I better pull over and get a few winks", and I am telling you that WE (I have not had an accident in over 20 years, knock on wood) are just as likely to be in an accident where we are at fault for driver inattention as that officer was. Hopefully it won't have such a tragic outcome. So I who lives in the glass house shall not throw stones.