Ladies, women, girls....

[kelownagirl]

This topic came up the other day as we were watching the IM Canada. DH kept referring to the women racers as "ladies" as in "that lady is running strong" or "I like that lady's bike" etc. I told him I much preferred the word "woman" instead of "lady", particularly since we were talking about female athletes, most of whom were in their 20-40's. In my mind, the word lady conjures up high heels, nylons and a dress to me. Somehow it sounds a little condescending in this context.

I know he does not mean it disrespectfully, in fact, I'm quite certain that in his mind, he's trying to sound very respectful, but for some reason, it bugs me.

Is it just me? What you prefer to be called in that situation? I told him I was going to ask you "women" and see what kind of feedback I got.

Thanks,

The very unladylike, kelownagirl

[teawoman]

Yup. Woman. People (esp. men) seem a lot more scared of that word than the word man.

Should add that I don't think ppl who use the term mean to be disrespectful...just that they seem to be tiptoeing around something.

[Wahine]

Well, I don't consider myself lady-like at all but it doesn't bother me to be called a lady.

Having said that, I would typically refer to a female athlete as a woman, not a lady. Somehow lady just seems a little weird to me.

[Zen]

It's situational.
In this case the use of "lady' seems odd.
I prefer to be a woman.

[lph]

Language is important, it conveys preconceptions and cements them as well, so it does matter what you call people. I make a point out of using "woman" as much as possible, even though i Norwegian almost everyone uses "lady" to describe a woman in general. In general, I am a woman, not a girl or a lady, which imply certain characteristics.

Being a girl either means you're young(er) or implies familiarity. Somebody who doesn't know me has no business calling me a girl. Being a lady is the female equivalent of a gentleman, and implies sophistication, elegance, fine clothes and good manners. In a athletic setting that's just absurd.

In case you couldn't tell, this is one of my pet peeves

[RoadRaven]

It peeves me when I hear "ladies" and "men"
They are not a match

If you are not going to call something a "gentleman's race", then don't call us "ladies".

It should be women and men, its simple, its honest and carries no preconceptions or possible offence...

[RoadRaven]

Oh... and I managed to avoid "girls"

I must admit I refer to my colleagues as girls, and I don't mind it on commentary as long as the men are also being referred to as boys or lads...

[cyclingmom01]

This topic honestly has never crossed my mind. I'm in Georgia & I would like to think hsopitality is still alive. Guys open doors for gals, etc. Heck my 9 y/o son even opens my car door for me. I was raised to show any elder respect by calling them sir or maam. When I entered the military and called a non-commisioned officer sir or maam, I got "dropped" & had to do push-ups. That was a hard habit for me to break. I guess my point is that it's a habit. Don't get hung up on it. I don't see it as derogatory in anyway.

[lyca]

If you are not going to call something a "gentleman's race", then don't call us "ladies".

That's exactly what I was thinking. I wonder if part of the problem is that we don't have a female match for the word "guy". If I'm watching a male race (or any male sport) I feel comfortable saying "Hey, that guy is so fast!"

If I substitute "man" for "guy", it feels very formal. (though I'm sure I could get used to it)

Is there a more casual word for "woman"? The only think I can think of is "chick" and that has negative connotations. (Admittedly, though, I sometimes use it... )

Maybe we can make one up!

[lph]

That's exactly what I was thinking. I wonder if part of the problem is that we don't have a female match for the word "guy". If I'm watching a male race (or any male sport) I feel comfortable saying "Hey, that guy is so fast!"

If I substitute "man" for "guy", it feels very formal. (though I'm sure I could get used to it)

Is there a more casual word for "woman"? The only think I can think of is "chick" and that has negative connotations. (Admittedly, though, I sometimes use it... )

Maybe we can make one up!

I agree. In fact I pointed out a few years back that from now on I was calling ALL my climbing friends "dudes" or "guys", male or female so it's kind of an in-joke. I like the friendly sound. Female friends sometimes say "hey, babe", but my male friends don't dare

Actually I remember somebody here on this board commenting on the "cool chickie" on the logo at the top of the page, I thought that sounded neat.

[Tuckervill]

That's exactly what I was thinking. I wonder if part of the problem is that we don't have a female match for the word "guy". If I'm watching a male race (or any male sport) I feel comfortable saying "Hey, that guy is so fast!"

If I substitute "man" for "guy", it feels very formal. (though I'm sure I could get used to it)

Is there a more casual word for "woman"? The only think I can think of is "chick" and that has negative connotations. (Admittedly, though, I sometimes use it... )

Maybe we can make one up!

I think gal is the counterpart to guy.

Yes, I try to use woman instead of lady. I use the word guy a lot, but I hardly ever say gal.

Karen

[Starfish]

It peeves me when I hear "ladies" and "men"
They are not a match. If you are not going to call something a "gentleman's race", then don't call us "ladies".

It should be women and men, its simple, its honest and carries no preconceptions or possible offence...

Yep.

From the old-school Southern male perspective, I was taught, and still believe that all adult females are to be considered "ladies" until their behavior clearly demonstrates otherwise. And even then, you give them the benefit of doubt.

Great, as long as men are always considered and called gentlemen until their behavior clearly demonstrates otherwise, and even then they are given the benefit of the doubt, and the STANDARDS for judging who is a gentlemen and who is a lady are EXACTLY THE SAME. In my experience, this isn't what happens out there.

And then, I also agree with everyone who writes about all the context stuff that happens when women are together in more intimate groups...friends, obviously relaxed social situations, etc. I guess I go both ways. Do I care if a woman I'm cycling with screams You Go Girl at me? No! Do I care if some idiot man decides I am not worthy to be called a Lady if I do something that doesn't live up to his standard of what feminine social behavior should look like? Well, I might not care about his opinion, if that's the kind of man he is, but I do care that women still have to buck double standards.

Edited to add: As Zen said on a different thread, this is one of those discussions I would enjoy more without male participation. I care about hearing what the women of TE would like to be called. I'm tired of hearing about what men think women ought to be called.

[mimitabby]

I grew up in the 60's where suddenly women were not to be referred to as girls, and the word; ladies was rather stilted, so i would become rather unhappy if i was called the wrong thing.

fast forward; now I've gone to Italy where all the older women are calling each other "girls" (ragazze) and men actually call themselves boys (ragazzi) and i am thinking, why am i getting so uptight about this?

so i'm not anymore. I don't like being called "one of the guys" either, but girl, lady, woman. it's all cool. I'm obviously no girl, but if my (at that time) 80 year old aunt can be a girl, so can I.

and i can go ballistic when at a nice restaurant the wait person says to me referring to my lovely meal "Are you still WORKING on this?"

[amy]

I really had to think about this one for a while. I typically refer to women as girls, particularly if they are around my age (30) or younger. I can't see calling a 70-year-old woman a girl in conversation. But I often find myself talking about a "woman" and I call her a girl. To me, it feels closer, like she's part of my club or something. I can also be found saying chic... often referring to a girl I think is pretty cool. "Woman" feels so official or categorical to me. Not to mention we're fighting for a term that has "man" in the title.

Girls and guys is usually the way I go.