Anyone ever backpacked in the Grand Canyon?

[Tri Girl]

Ok, so next summer DH and I are planning a 4-5 day hiking trip in the Grand Canyon. We are planning it for just the two of us- not with a group (we like to do our own thing- and group tours are crazy expensive). I'm SO excited (and it's still soooo far away). I know summer is the worst time to hike the canyon, but seeing how I teach, and that's the only time I can do it- it will have to do.
We went to the Canyon last summer and hiked 3 miles down and I knew I had to go back to see more of the canyon. It's beauty is amazing/scary/intimidating.
I've already bought him an internal frame backpack, and am keeping my eye out for one for me. We've climbed a few 13,000+ ft mountains, so the logistics of hiking/backcountry camping aren't new or scary to us, although I know that canyoneering and mountaineering are VERY different birds.

I've been scouring the internet for training programs, but have only found mountaineering programs to use (a training program for climbing Denali will work for conditioning/strengthing). I've purchased numerous books about hiking the Canyon and am reading them all the time.
We'll be carrying lightweight camping gear (tent/sleeping pads/sheet), water purification system, dromedary, stove, etc.

I'm just wondering if anyone has done it, and what your experiences were like. I'm nervous about getting a backcountry permit (need to apply 4 months in advance), but hoping we'll be approved. That will determine if we get to do it or not.

Any tips, advice, etc are warmly welcomed!

[Pedal Wench]

Oh! ME, ME, ME!!!!

It's my favorite place in the world, and we've done quite a few backpacking trips. I'm super-jealous - I haven't been there in two years and I feel homesick!

Trips we've done - rim-to-rim-to-rim, starting on both sides. We prefer the South Kaibab trail - I think it's prettier, but because it doesn't have water, so you shouldn't hike up in any kind of heat.

We've also done some hiking on the Tonto Trail, combined to make a really big rim-to-rim-to-rim, again in both directions. Trailheads: Hermit's Rest, Grandview, and then the North Rim again. Oh - spend as much time on the North Rim as you can. SO much nicer than the South Rim - quiet, cooler, greener. The Tonto Trail is much more primitive, and water sources are harder to find in some locations. We had a scare one trip, and had to get our water out of a tiny little puddle with tadpoles. Yuck.

And, we've also hiked to Clear Creek from the South Rim.

When you get your permits and if you're planning on camping at the Bright Angel campground - at the Colorado River - try to book meals or even a cabin at Phantom Ranch.

Hmmm. Too much info???

[Tri Girl]

Too cool!!! Oh, and it' not too much info, PW- do you have more???

We actually have 3 plans to submit when we apply for our backcountry permit: rim to rim, South Kaibab to river then back up to Indian Garden to top, and some form of the Tonto trail. I want to provide as many options as possible so that our odds of getting a permit are greater. I'm SO excited!

Mmm... tadpole water. Sounds yummy! I'm actually reading (right now) Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon and read about a couple that passed up a puddle with tadpoles in it (proved to be fatal for them).

I've heard that North Rim is so much prettier, but it's so hard to get to. Would you recommend hiking down to the river and back from the North Rim? I know it's a LOT less traveled, and we can camp at Cottonwood Camp halfway back up. It's a lot further down (and back up) from the North Rim, but if you think it's worth it then we'll totally consider it. I'm all about avoiding the crowds and seeing a different side of the canyon (we were all South Rim last time).

Please, tell me more!!!!!! Thanks!

[Pedal Wench]

Too cool!!! Oh, and it' not too much info, PW- do you have more???

Please, tell me more!!!!!! Thanks!

You want more? I got more!!!

DO read all of Over the Edge. It's a cautionary tale, and we've seen people making many of the same mistakes. I can't remember if it's in the book, but we followed the path of the marathon runner who died going from Grandview to S. Kaibab shortly after she died, and it drove home how treacherous it really is - especially off the main trails. For your first time (or two) I would recommend sticking to the main "corridor" trails. Stopping at Cottonwood is a good idea. For us (kinda quiet, loner-types) we prefer the laidback North Rim - a rim-to-rim lets you see both sides. Oddly, we find it better to stop at Cottonwood on the way down. On the way up, we usually hit it so early that it's just easier to hike all the way up. Stopping there on the way down lets you get an early start the next morning heading into The Box, which can get brutally hot.

You're smart to go down S. Kaibab and up B.A. You could stop at Indian Garden, then maybe do one night out on the Tonto. It would still be doable to then hike back to the rim in one day.

You had asked about training --- another cautionary tale... as fit cyclists, you would think it would have been no problem. It seems the more we cycled before the trip, the tighter our calves were after we hiked - literally hobbling around for days after our last rim2rim2rim because our calves were trashed. So, start stretching NOW. I mean it, step away from the laptop and stretch! I usually put on a weighted backpack and hit both the stairs in my house and my treadmill, designed for hikers with a 25% grade. And, don't forget the downhills. Be careful training for them - it's tough on knees, but work up slowly, especially since no matter how light you pack, you must carry all the water you'll need on trails like S.Kaibab.

My BF was a college professor, so we understand the scheduling problems - but, the North Rim doesn't open until May. It will be HOT in the inner gorge, but drink, wear hats, rest in the shade (yeah, hiked it enough that I could tell you where all the shade is!) and put your feet up for a few minutes every time you stop.

[Pedal Wench]

Oh -- one more tip. Put in as many variations for your trip on the permit as you can. Forwards, backwards, moved one day forward, one day back - every option that you can.

[divingbiker]

Haven't hiked it (with a backpack and all) but I did climb out from Bright Angel Campground to the south rim starting at noon, and man, was it hot! (I rafted halfway down through the canyon, then hiked out, but the mules carried my gear.) A shower never felt so good.

But I did want to second Pedal Wench's recommendation of spending some time at the North Rim. Sooooo much better than the South Rim. South is like a city, North is like the country. Hotels vs. cottages. Frantic vs. laid back. Love love love it there.

[SLash]

Tri Girl - I would second going to the North Rim. It's cooler and quieter than the south rim, especially during the summer.

My DH and I just got back from a week there last month. We didn't do that much hiking, in fact very little because of a bike accident on one of the trails -- if you plan on renting one of their bikes check the brakes first!! The front brakes locked up on my rental and off and over (the bike not the canyon rim ) I went. That happened on our first day so not much hiking after that.

Still was a great time though, just so incredibly beautiful and remote. I love it and can't wait to go back with one of my own bikes!

Susan

[Tri Girl]

ouch about crashing on the bike! I'm really glad you didn't go over the canyon wall. I've seen some pictures of the mtn bike trails along the rim and they look spectacular. We'd ideally like to be on the North rim- and we'd like to bring our mtn bikes with us. It all depends on what permit we're approved for. Crossing fingers we even get one...

[SLash]

Good luck Tri-Girl, may the cycling gods smile on you! Smart move taking your own bkes!

[Yelsel]

The Grand Canyon -- and desert hiking in general -- is my true love. My first backpacking trip was in the Grand Canyon when I was 14, and I've done all the corridor and unmaintained trails, and almost all of the wilderness trails -- planning to do Bass / the Jewels next year.

Don't be sanguine about the temperature -- 110 to 115 is a lot different than 105, even with the humidity difference. Plus temperature is measured in the shade, and there *is* no shade on the Tonto Plateau and lower. The latest I've hiked is late May-earliest June, and was lucky to have cooler-than-average weather... which meant carrying only a gallon (4L) of water (8 lb) and only setting up a sunshade between noon and 2pm. Normally the sunshade might need to go up as early as 10am and stay up until 3-4pm, and need 1-2 quarts/L more water.

You don't need netting to keep out insects, and you don't usually need to worry about rain until latest July to mid-August monsoons, so bringing the fast-light footprint / poles / fly setup (or a tarp / hiking pole combo) works for shade... the emergency foil blankets are a light way to make the fly more opaque.

It does get cool at night so you need to bring an outer layer, too.
Dressing: http://grandcanyonhiker.com/planners...tdressed.shtml

I would stay on the corridor trails, both since it is your first time for both canyons and desert (I assume) -- if you run into any problems there will likely be people by at some point. Cell phones do not work at the rim, let alone in the Canyon; I carry a signal mirror (and know how to use it) but I suspect that there are enough "jokers" out there that it would be ignored. A loud whistle and two means of starting fires are other good safety measures. You could rent a personal locator beacon... in any case, hikers are charged the cost of rescue (usually involves a helicopter). You do not need to carry a bear cannister, which is nice, but the rodents will definitely be after your food.

Permits are first-come, first served... especially for the corridor trails there is no vetting of how prepared you are. So start faxing (if the fax machine is up, sigh) right after midnight.

To cut down on the food you need to bring, you can reserve dinner at Phantom Ranch, and buy bagged lunches there as well; there is also a small trade store to buy gorp, postcards, and get a stamp cancellation from the bottom of the Grand Canyon. The dinners do not have a time limit for reservation (in fact if you wanted to stay in a cabin at Phantom Ranch, you need to reserve up to a year in advance).

Reading Death in the Grand Canyon is a great resource -- at least we can cut out the 20% or so of deaths "getting up at night and peeing off the edge of a cliff" (okay, I know women can pee standing up, but most don't).

Great website -- around since Mosaic at least --
http://www.bobspixels.com/kaibab.org/hiking.htm

Backcountry office advice to hikers --
http://www.bobspixels.com/kaibab.org/bc/suffer.htm

[Tri Girl]

Thanks, Yelsel, for the great advice! I really, really appreciate your input. I'm impressed with your canyoneering experience! We'll definitely stay on the corridor trails for our first dip into the canyon. Thanks for the tip on bringing the lightest tent setup. We already have a light, small two person tent. We'll probably bring that and leave the rainfly at the rim.
One question: how do you train for the downhills when you don't have any hills around on which to train? I can train for uphills on the stair climber and treadmill, but don't know how to train for the walk down... I'm stumped.

I don't mean to sound sanguine about the temps. I totally and fully appreciate and have deep respect for the desert in the summer. I grew up in Yuma, AZ (the armpit of AZ ) and have spent many summers camping/hiking in the desert. I am very schooled in the ways of respecting the heat and recognizing my needs. The fact that I've been away from the desert for 10 years has softened me somewhat, but I will most definitely prepare myself the best I'm able to. I am a severe over-planner/over-preparer so I will most certainly err on the side of caution with all endeavors related to the Canyon.

DH and I have been talking, and he has to begin putting in for leave in mid November for the entire following year. IF he's able to get Spring Break week off (mid-March), we will go then, but if not- we will HAVE to go in late May/early June. Darn my school year schedule.
At least it's not July...


Thanks again, everyone, for all your help!!! I sincerely appreciate all the advice, tips, help, websites, etc. Nobody I know in real life has done this, so your help is priceless!

[spokewench]

I live in Flagstaff so I have hiked in the canyon a few times overnight; and more so on day hikes.

It is really hot and dry; do not underestimate the need for water (how hot the water will get) and remember that even if there are noted springs on certain trails at places before you get to the river; some of them do not exist during the summer months. Start early in the morning, even hike before it is light if you have good lights and are not on one of the more adventurous trails.

The good thing is when you are buying your pack; and you are planning on hiking in the summer; you do not need to carry as much so you do not need one of the great big bags! I use a bag that is smaller (I will be at home later and will get the dimensions of the bag). You don't need a sleeping bag in summer in the canyon only a sheet or light blanket; if you plan on camping on the rim, you will need more. I usually don't hike in the heat of the summer in the canyon (don't need to since I live so close) but my husband has. He was amazed at how much harder it was and how hot it really felt like. He was quite fit at the time too.

I don't know of any way to really train for the GC either. It is all up and then all down; so there is nowhere else that you can get that much of a sustained up and down to get used to the GC. I usually try to do as many fitness hikes in the mountains that consist of hiking up and down, but even that won't quite keep you from getting sore. There just really is nothing like the GC!

Remember that even if you get a permit to hike in the summer months, there are warnings on the permits that say something like; this hike is not recommended; it is dangerous and you should not do it! These warnings are not to be taken lightly; it is dangerous in the canyon in the summer