Riding in groups - semi-vent

[Nanci]

The _president_ (of the cycling club) had his first crash ever, today, right in front of me, and thank God I didn't run him over!!! Caused by touching the wheel ahead. But the person belonging to that wheel was accordianing back and forth, caused by pedaling, coasting, pedaling, coasting rather than soft-pedaling or whatever you call it, to slow up a little rather than coasting and drifting back, then surging ahead when starting to pedal again. Pres had been handling that for miles by drifting left every time she'd coast, (which is ok every so often but gets annoying after a while if you have to do it over and over and over, which is why I had dropped back from third place to back behind Pres- hoping for accordian relief) but apparently got too close for a second...Luckily I'd been watching things like a hawk and was able to swerve left (rather than braking and causing a pile up!!) even though I was about a foot and a half behind him. The person behind me also avoided the crash.

I think I am going to start carrying my Brave Soldier antiseptic spray on the bike, rather than in the first aid kit in the car. He avoided major injury, just a bit of road rash on one leg, no torn clothes, bike unscathed. Lucky.

BTW, witeowl, this was a perfect example of how if you touch someone's wheel, _you_ are the one who's going to crash, probably not the person you touched. But I agree with everyone else- if you don't want to appear to be lagging/flagging, you can't keep a bike length between you and the bike ahead. Maybe you could practice at the back of the line, where there isn't any pressure on you, and get closer and closer to the bike ahead as you gain confidence. The group has to be reliable, though- you have to be able to trust them to inform you of slowing, stopping, road hazards, etc. There shouldn't be anyone slamming on their brakes in a paceline. If you start to catch up the rider ahead to an uncomfortable distance for you, just drift left a bit and catch some wind to slow down a bit while continuing to pedal softly, then drift back over. An experienced rider behind you will see what is going on and not rush to fill in the gap.

Or ride in a more relaxed group, if there is one available.

Nanci

[bluerider]

OK, I didn't want to hijack this thread, but the following statement made me remember my last few rides with the LBC:



Now, I'll ride at what I consider a safe distance from the person in front of me. In fact, if I get any closer, I'm afraid that they're going to brake and I'm going to clip them and we're both going down.

Invariably, I get passed by someone, and he rejoins the group RIGHT in front of me, so I have to slow down so that I'm at what I consider a safe distance.

Rinse and repeat until I'm at the back of the pack, but not because I can't keep up. (Hills, of course, are an exception. A turtle with one leg can pass me then.)

But on the flats and shallow hills, it's really kind of irritating. Why do they do this? Can they not stand the thought of being behind a fat chick? You'd think I'd create plenty of draft behind me! I just don't get it, and it's really a bit irritating...

OK, you can go back to your regularly scheduled happy posts.

Hi witeowl,

I understand your frustration but I really don't believe the riders in your group are doing this on purpose. I ride very close to the wheel ahead of me because I trust the rider in front of me. You have to trust the rider in front of you. If you're a new rider, I can understand the hesitation but as you ride more often with the group, it's important you develop this trust.

A gap in the peleton has a ripple effect, as you accelerate each time to catch up, the riders behind you have to do as well. At the end of the day, you have to preserve the pack. I do think the other riders should provide some friendly instruction. When I first started I was told time and time again to stay on the front rider's wheel and not to accelerate through turns etc.

Don't get too frustrated and keep at it. Happy riding!

[KnottedYet]

I ride my myself most of the time, and always keep a few bike lengths between me and the strangers in front of me on the bike trail.

Seems like that's the right thing for me to be doing in this case.

Now, if I get riding with some experienced folks who I know and trust, I'll ask them to teach me how to ride in a pace line, and I'll be closer to them.

The last time I was in a group ride the person ahead of me was all over the road and wobbling/bobbing around. Scared me and the cars sharing the road. I stayed well back, it seemed dangerous to be any closer. Even though it meant I was bringing up the rear.

[witeowl]

OK, I think some of you hit on some really good points, some of which nick my ego a bit more than just blaming it on machismo (yes, they are all men that do this), but it may be time to face facts on this point.

First, I don't have a full bike length between the rear wheel of the person ahead of me and my front wheel. Really, I think it's just a few inches, but I might be misjudging.

Also, when this happens, we're more in a pack than a paceline, so that leads a bit to the probable heart of the matter: I may not ride as "straight" as I should. Perhaps, as at least one of you alluded to, they may be passing me because I make them nervous by being a bit squirrly.

Definately something to work on - and thanks for the friendly and honest perspective, all.

(Woe is me that my first footrace (only 2 miles) is on the same day as the LBC's beginner's ride! I probably could learn a lot about pack riding and pacelines, not to mention other ettiquette!)

Oh, but hey - here's a(nother) stupid question (I can hijack my own thread, right? ) : I know that drafting makes riding easier on the person behind, but does it make it harder on the person in front?

[bcipam]

Yes the front person carries most of the effort which is why riders in a paceline rotate giving the lead a rest. Front goes to back, number two moves up to front. If you watch professional cycling this is a beautiful art form especially if it's windy - paceline rotates almost constantly.

[pyxichick]

Now I'm a little confused.

Everyone I've asked has told me that the front rider does not work any harder if someone is drafting. They take turns because the front person gets tired faster because they're the only one in the group NOT drafting off someone else.

I've also been told that drafting reduces the amount of effort required by about 30 percent.

Anyone else have any facts about this?

[Granny]

Hey lady,

You are welcome to join me on the Franktown road loop some early Sunday morning...there always seems to be one or two guys going the other way, but they just wave. And because I am a BGRaB, haven't found a jersey that doesn't make me look like the Pillsbury dough boy, and have to ride sitting upright no one takes me too seriously.
Have you done any Procrastinating Pedlers rides? I once did a hike with the S.C.; it was a race to the top...forget about pausing to look at the beautiful scenery. So, now I am leery of the groups. I was doing the Mayberry loop out on West 4th one morning when all these very serious bikers went flying past....turned out the be the PP group ride that day. I am very focused on improving my skills, and body, but just don't have that competative edge any more I guess. Or, maybe I am content with just competing against myself. The pictures on your blog were great; I was just there Sunday; my alternative chuch! Let me know if you would be interested in hooking up for a ride, I promise not to cut in front of you.

[Eden]

Now I'm a little confused.

Everyone I've asked has told me that the front rider does not work any harder if someone is drafting. They take turns because the front person gets tired faster because they're the only one in the group NOT drafting off someone else.

I've also been told that drafting reduces the amount of effort required by about 30 percent.

Anyone else have any facts about this?

Yes - you are correct, the person in the front does not work any harder when they have someone drafting them than they would have to if they were alone.

[Pedal Wench]

In fact, I've heard that the person riding in the front gets a slight benefit too - something like 5%, because if the reduction of turbulance pulling them back.

[bcipam]

Yes - you are correct, the person in the front does not work any harder when they have someone drafting them than they would have to if they were alone.

I think the confusion is maybe my first response - the front rider does not get the benefit of the draft so it's like he or she were out riding alone which means he or she is working harder than those that are drafting. Those behind the lead riders get a 30% reduction in their effort so there is great benefit in drafting and this explains why the lead always rotates out and everyone should take a turn pulling.

By pulling other riders, the effort is not increase - in otherwords the drafting riders do not cause anymore effort, but the lead rider gets no benefit or help.

Clear? Best way to understand is to go out with some friends and try it. You will understand its better to be the draftee than the draftor!

[Eden]

I think the confusion is maybe my first response - the front rider does not get the benefit of the draft so it's like he or she were out riding alone which means he or she is working harder than those that are drafting. Those behind the lead riders get a 30% reduction in their effort so there is great benefit in drafting and this explains why the lead always rotates out and everyone should take a turn pulling.

By pulling other riders, the effort is not increase - in otherwords the drafting riders do not cause anymore effort, but the lead rider gets no benefit or help.

Clear? Best way to understand is to go out with some friends and try it. You will understand its better to be the draftee than the draftor!

Believe me at 5ft I probably understand the benefits of drafting better than most. I can get what most people need a peleton for out of one nice large person out front. If you look at my ITT results I'm not necessarily the strongest rider out there, but I generally do well in road races because I can take advantage of the group - or even just a few in a break. Even when I take my turn at the front, when I rotate off I get a bigger rest than the poor person who has to follow me.

I have seen many people under the misconception that a drafter in some way holds you back. They complain about unwanted drafters at large events. There are legitimate reasons for not wanting someone right on your wheel, but thinking that they are hurting your performance in any way isn't one of them. If you give someone permission to draft don't be too bugged if your pace pressures them more than they can handle on the front. I draft my husband often. His pace is just fine for me if I can stay tucked in behind - but often more than I can handle if you toss me out in the wind. If I draft him continuously we both get a good workout.

Some of that confusion may come from racing commentary. Yes its true that in a race "sitting in" on a break is detrimental to the break. That rider may get to the front and intentionally slow the pace or break up the rhythm of the paceline. Or a person may just sit in and while she isn't really slowing the pace if she worked the break could possibly be going faster.

[li10up]

In fact, I've heard that the person riding in the front gets a slight benefit too - something like 5%, because if the reduction of turbulance pulling them back.

They talked about that on OLN during the TdF. Lead rider gets some but very little benefit of someone drafting off of him/her. Those close to the front have about a 30% reduction in their effort and those in the large pack have even more of a benefit. Drafting is so cool. It's amazing how the person in front can just be spinning away and to stay on their wheel you can be coasting at times.

[RoadRaven]

BTW, witeowl, this was a perfect example of how if you touch someone's wheel, _you_ are the one who's going to crash, probably not the person you touched.
Nanci

This is exactly what caused the crash a couple of months ago in our club that led to the death of one of our members a few days later.
Remember to be careful about how you follow the rider in front because it is very easy to put yourself in hospital - or worse.