Made in China- do we care?

[tulip]

I like to sew, but I have not sewn any cycling gear. Sewing lycra is tricky without the proper sewing machine attachments, and my 1952 Singer definitely doesn't have them! But I'm willing to try other fabrics.

Does anyone know of cycling/athletic wear patterns?

[crazycanuck]

Thinking...Perhaps check out MEC's website as I know they mention where items were made & think i have a vest made in Canada. Same with Ground Effect.

www.groundeffect.co.nz
www.mec.ca

[shootingstar]

Thread on sewing cycling clothing has some useful links:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...ghlight=sewing

Geez tulip, 1952 Singer..beats my 1983 Kenmore which my mother selected after I graduated from university. No, she wasn't sending me the wrong message. I sewed alot of my business work clothing during the lst few years.

Would think that a polyester fabric not too stretchy would be fine for sewing. Not sure it you could simulate a serge stitch or a fabric sewn edge that would not rub /irriate skin much when moving around alot. But a jersey not skin tight, should be fine.
________________________________________________________________
Unless it's a warehouse sale, I can't afford the local-made sporting wear brands that we have ie. Sugoi (just less than 2 kms. away) or Arc'teryx (a 24 kms. bike ride in North Vancouver) But they don't normally sell direct. Taiga is ok but I would have to check where actually made.

Sadly another local-based firm, Climate Zone seems to be folding up since we bought some great stuff on a close-out sale a few weeks ago.

[Bike Chick]

Does anyone know of cycling/athletic wear patterns?
There are several "threads" on here about sewing your own clothes. Just do a search. I know that Green Pepper makes cycling clothes patterns and you could always take an old jersey apart to make your own pattern.

Terry was sold at the end of last year. MOst (if not all) production is moving to Asia. Saddles included.
Susan, that's very disappointing news. I had no idea.

Maybe only partially true, and maybe not at all, when you do real-cost accounting and look at the whole picture. If I pay an extra 30% or 40% to buy a product made in my own country, state, or county, then I've made sure that money stays in my community, and some or even all of it it comes back to me. It comes back in a higher tax base - better roads means fewer repairs on my vehicles; better cultural opportunities and libraries mean I don't have to purchase as many books or travel long distances to see shows; better equipped first responders, when I need them, can benefit me financially as well as physically; higher real estate values "raise all boats" (bubbles excepted, of course). It comes back in making it a more livable community, more attractive to professionals whose services I may need in the future, so I don't have to travel a long distance to see a competent (or any!) doctor or lawyer. It comes back in less use of mechanized transport and the associated pollution, and the associated health problems that I pay for both when my own health is affected, and when my insurance premiums reflect my neighbors' impaired health. Et cetera....
Amen, Oak, you are preaching to the choir. I wish many others thought this way.

[Cataboo]

I have a couple of ti bikes that the frames are made in the USA. Mostly I've been picking up bikes 2nd hand, so where they'rde is somewhat the luck of the draw in what fits me in something I want... But I'm happy to have a couple bikes that are made in the US.

Clothing - I don't go out of my way to only get clothing made in the US or not in china, but I am definitely willing to spend more on clothing that is made in the US and am more likely to buy brands that I know make their clothing in a country that's probably paying reasonable wages to their workers.

I definitely have never paid full price for arc'teryx - but I was willing to pay more for on sale arc'teryx because it was made in Canada, more than I was willing to pay for made in china north face or mountain hardwear. I've been really dised that lately they've moved a lot of their production to Canada and they raised their prices to boot... So people get to pay more for the pleasure of buying chinese made arc'teryx? So basically I don't buy any chinese made arc'teryx and buy much less arc'teryx overall.

[moderncyclista]

Maybe I'm naive, but I thought Trek made their frames in the U.S. Nope, my LBS says my lil' 520 was shaped/welded/painted in Taiwan of all places.

Even Cannondale doesn't produce any frames in the U.S. anymore.

*sigh*

What cycling clothing manufacturers make stuff in the U.S. again?

[Cataboo]

trek's high end carbon frames are still made in the US, I believe.

Cars are getting kind of murky, as well... I saw a kia commercial the other day and i think they said their cars were made in Georgia or Alabama or something like that. My ford escort in college was made in Canada.

[KnottedYet]

What cycling clothing manufacturers make stuff in the U.S. again?

Some Ibex is made in the USA: www.ibexwear.com
All Joneswares is made in the USA: www.joneswares.com
All Harlot is made in the USA: www.harlotwear.com

I know there're more, but I'm at work and can't sneak off and go searching...

REI has a "specialty shop" option: Made in the USA. Click that, and you get items carried at REI that are made in the US.

[NbyNW]

This is a fascinating discussion from the perspective of an American who is living in Canada.

Edmonton seems to be dominated by big box stores -- I really have to go out of my way to spend money at a place that is locally owned and run. And since it's winter, I presume that our fresh produce is either coming from greenhouses or from quite far away.

With regards to goods made abroad, it seems that the primary concerns are, in no particular order (everyone has their own priorities):

- quality/safety of products
- working conditions/human rights
- impact on domestic/local economies
- geopolitical/ethical (i.e., don't agree with Beijing's stance on Tibet or Taiwan, etc.)

As a Taiwanese American, from the time I began earning my own money, I never wanted a cent to go to China. But I found it was nearly impossible as a struggling 20-something in the mid-90s to even buy socks and underwear at my budget that weren't made in China. More options have evolved as American consumers have begun to pay more attention to issues such as labor conditions and product safety, so that's a good thing.

I feel that my stance on this has also evolved. Few things are made entirely in one place anymore. Icebreaker ships its raw wool from NZ to China to be processed and made into finished products. It's a good company with great products and strong environmental ethics, and they've made a great effort to be consistent with those ethics at every stage of production. Yes, their products cost a little more, but it's a company I don't mind supporting.

I was on a whale-watching boat last week, and one of the guides told us, when you do a trip like this, you show the community that there is an economically viable alternative to killing whales.

So, supporting a company like Icebreaker in my mind is a little like eco-tourism. Show the Chinese that ethical practices pay off.

As for the bicycle industry -- I'm just glad that, for the moment, there are millions of Chinese riding bicycles instead of driving cars.

[deeaimond]

Terry was sold at the end of last year. MOst (if not all) production is moving to Asia. Saddles included.

Yeah, I realised that when they were having their 'moving' sale last year end. a rep told me...

adding to the note, even other south east asian economies suffered with the rise of china. when i was young, there was a viable garment manufacturing industry here, many home-makers made extra money by taking home consignments of sewing. as well as local garment factories. now these jobs are all gone. just a few left. most of our manufacturing industry was lost to other asian countries.... even as an asian country, we're no longer viable. we're too expensive!!

all in all, its pretty scary.

With the american financial crises, i think it got worse coz the small american companies can't get financing and have to close, even if they had good business....

[Susan Otcenas]

Some Ibex is made in the USA: www.ibexwear.com
All Joneswares is made in the USA: www.joneswares.com
All Harlot is made in the USA: www.harlotwear.com

I know there're more, but I'm at work and can't sneak off and go searching...

REI has a "specialty shop" option: Made in the USA. Click that, and you get items carried at REI that are made in the US.

Couple things:
We publish the country of origin for pretty much every item on the website. For example: http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodDE_WFTT.html
The right hand side of the product tab (default view) under the photo shows a bunch of fields with details. One of those fields is country of origin. So, you can see that this DeSoto tri suit is made in the USA.

Many of our vendors make many items in the US. Canari & Sheila Moon do almost everything in California, for example. Canada is a popular choice as well, especially with Descente, Shebeest, Sugoi & Louis Garneau.

Certain classes of goods are almost always made in the US (synthtic socks, for example), while other classes of goods are almost NEVER made in the US (jackets and wetsuits being 2 typical examples).

Made in China doesn't mean it's junk. In fact, the Chinese make some of the most technically sophisticated apparel available. Wetsuits are a great example of this. Wetsuits are very difficult to produce (doing a blind stitch on a 1mm neoprene wetsuit sleeve is an art) and the Chinese manufacturers are very very good at it.

The harsh reality is that the vast vast majority of consumers simply will not pay the price it would require to get certain things made in the US. Outerwear is a good example. It is not economically feasible to produce it here. US manufacturers simply can not produce an equivalent product (fabrics/features, etc) for the price most consumers will pay. That is mostly due to the very high cost of US labor. (and that's true of many industries other than apparel. Car parts are another example of that.)

I don't mean to be flip, but the reality is that most people want the very best for the very least cost. That's human nature. That's why Walmart is the biggest retailer on the planet. That's why cotton tees can be had for $4 and a 6 quart crock pot costs $19.99 (or less!) at Target. That's why TVs are no longer manufactured in the US. Consumers simply won't pay the price.

So, to answer the OPs original question "Do we care?"... I'd have to say that many people care, but most don't change their buying habits when push comes to shove.

[smilingcat]

Mainland China is easy to blame. It's not just the Chinese with xenophobic mentality, we do too. When a big European company takes over an American, not too much complaint. When an Asian company does the same, fears are raised.

Now as for buying American read the following

Commonwealth of Northern Marianas Island

just a quick exerpt:

Recently, substantial attention has been drawn to the methods used by CNMI factory employers to reach these sky-rocketing export dollars.61 Manufacturers on Saipan have been sharply criticized for horrific working conditions,62 failure to pay wages owed to employees,63 forcing female workers to have abortions,64 and refusing to allow workers to attend religious services.65

And the garments manufactured there can proudly AND legally afix Made in America/USA.

In the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI), a group of islands which the U.S. acquired after World War II and which became a U.S. territory by popular vote in 1976, the Asian garment industry has set up shop.7 Owners of factories there enjoy duty-free exports to the U.S. and can claim that their products have been “Made in the U.S.A.,” creating consumer confidence that the workers who produced them are protected by U.S. labor law.8

This time, I did manage to get my source and the reference.

Very sad and very scary...

[shootingstar]

I don't mean to be flip, but the reality is that most people want the very best for the very least cost. That's human nature. That's why Walmart is the biggest retailer on the planet. That's why cotton tees can be had for $4 and a 6 quart crock pot costs $19.99 (or less!) at Target. That's why TVs are no longer manufactured in the US. Consumers simply won't pay the price.

So, to answer the OPs original question "Do we care?"... I'd have to say that many people care, but most don't change their buying habits when push comes to shove.

Thx for the info. about the types of garments etc. and quality expectations, etc. which i didn't include in this excerpt.

Perhaps when pushed against a wall, one area people might care and follow through with their actions, is a consumer product that is not produced/manufactured properly and endangers personal health and safety.

Useful for us to have this discussion to really see how much as changed in terms of economic trade patterns, manufacturing origins, and changes in consumer attitudes. Or slow-moving changes to consumer attitudes.

Small points:
*deeiamond- didn't know how Singapore economically was affected by the shadow of China

*value of life in ther areas of occupational & health safety seems to be less in certain countries. Abit shocking to have learned from one of the engineers who worked in a 5-yr. $3 billion construction project that over 10-15 construction workers died over that time period in Tawain. Not in 1 sweep, but over that time period. The project was just completed early last year.

Very different in occupational health and safety enforcement compared to many industries in Canada and U.S. What is shocking is some firms from developed countries, ie. Germany may not much better. The above engineering Tawain project was managed/steered by the same firm that I worked for a local engineering project. After all, it was the same firm that hired labourers for our engineering project in suburb of Vancouver,....direct from Serbia, Poland, Thailand and Panama. Why? Because they were paid less than Canadians..because alot of our Canadian tradespeople/labourers that we hired, were unionized and hence, higher wages, etc. Meanwhile we had alot of Canadians unemployed. Yes, things made alot of sense...

* Keep in mind before the loss of garment industry in Canada and U.S., there were some sweatshops. Some of my relatives worked in them. But at least the money earned was going back to people who are Canadian.

[Trek420]

The Chinese are great, I love 'em, they do an amazing job and I have no problems buying stuff made there and if anyone from mainland China is lurking a hale and hearty welcome to TE, the best dang place in cyberspace but ....

I want my neighbors to have/keep their jobs too.

The government can not say "let's buy made in the good 'ol USA" or anywhere else if you live somewhere else. If they were to do so everyone screams "protectionism bad bad". But we can! I think we all agree wherever you are and whether you're blue, red, green or chartreuse that we need to keep jobs in the US or wherever we all are.

So chime in; what're a few of your favorite things made here or at least in the same country.

[NbyNW]

So chime in; what're a few of your favorite things made here or at least in the same country.

Great idea! For each city I've lived in:

Pittsburgh: Heinz Ketchup
New York: Steinway pianos
SF/Bay Area: wine, sourdough, and Apple computers
Boston: New Balance shoes
Seattle: Boeing 737s
Edmonton: oil (we're all allowed a guilty pleasure, right?)