Made in China- do we care?

[KnottedYet]

What cycling clothing manufacturers make stuff in the U.S. again?

Some Ibex is made in the USA: www.ibexwear.com
All Joneswares is made in the USA: www.joneswares.com
All Harlot is made in the USA: www.harlotwear.com

I know there're more, but I'm at work and can't sneak off and go searching...

REI has a "specialty shop" option: Made in the USA. Click that, and you get items carried at REI that are made in the US.

[Susan Otcenas]

Some Ibex is made in the USA: www.ibexwear.com
All Joneswares is made in the USA: www.joneswares.com
All Harlot is made in the USA: www.harlotwear.com

I know there're more, but I'm at work and can't sneak off and go searching...

REI has a "specialty shop" option: Made in the USA. Click that, and you get items carried at REI that are made in the US.

Couple things:
We publish the country of origin for pretty much every item on the website. For example: http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodDE_WFTT.html
The right hand side of the product tab (default view) under the photo shows a bunch of fields with details. One of those fields is country of origin. So, you can see that this DeSoto tri suit is made in the USA.

Many of our vendors make many items in the US. Canari & Sheila Moon do almost everything in California, for example. Canada is a popular choice as well, especially with Descente, Shebeest, Sugoi & Louis Garneau.

Certain classes of goods are almost always made in the US (synthtic socks, for example), while other classes of goods are almost NEVER made in the US (jackets and wetsuits being 2 typical examples).

Made in China doesn't mean it's junk. In fact, the Chinese make some of the most technically sophisticated apparel available. Wetsuits are a great example of this. Wetsuits are very difficult to produce (doing a blind stitch on a 1mm neoprene wetsuit sleeve is an art) and the Chinese manufacturers are very very good at it.

The harsh reality is that the vast vast majority of consumers simply will not pay the price it would require to get certain things made in the US. Outerwear is a good example. It is not economically feasible to produce it here. US manufacturers simply can not produce an equivalent product (fabrics/features, etc) for the price most consumers will pay. That is mostly due to the very high cost of US labor. (and that's true of many industries other than apparel. Car parts are another example of that.)

I don't mean to be flip, but the reality is that most people want the very best for the very least cost. That's human nature. That's why Walmart is the biggest retailer on the planet. That's why cotton tees can be had for $4 and a 6 quart crock pot costs $19.99 (or less!) at Target. That's why TVs are no longer manufactured in the US. Consumers simply won't pay the price.

So, to answer the OPs original question "Do we care?"... I'd have to say that many people care, but most don't change their buying habits when push comes to shove.

[shootingstar]

I don't mean to be flip, but the reality is that most people want the very best for the very least cost. That's human nature. That's why Walmart is the biggest retailer on the planet. That's why cotton tees can be had for $4 and a 6 quart crock pot costs $19.99 (or less!) at Target. That's why TVs are no longer manufactured in the US. Consumers simply won't pay the price.

So, to answer the OPs original question "Do we care?"... I'd have to say that many people care, but most don't change their buying habits when push comes to shove.

Thx for the info. about the types of garments etc. and quality expectations, etc. which i didn't include in this excerpt.

Perhaps when pushed against a wall, one area people might care and follow through with their actions, is a consumer product that is not produced/manufactured properly and endangers personal health and safety.

Useful for us to have this discussion to really see how much as changed in terms of economic trade patterns, manufacturing origins, and changes in consumer attitudes. Or slow-moving changes to consumer attitudes.

Small points:
*deeiamond- didn't know how Singapore economically was affected by the shadow of China

*value of life in ther areas of occupational & health safety seems to be less in certain countries. Abit shocking to have learned from one of the engineers who worked in a 5-yr. $3 billion construction project that over 10-15 construction workers died over that time period in Tawain. Not in 1 sweep, but over that time period. The project was just completed early last year.

Very different in occupational health and safety enforcement compared to many industries in Canada and U.S. What is shocking is some firms from developed countries, ie. Germany may not much better. The above engineering Tawain project was managed/steered by the same firm that I worked for a local engineering project. After all, it was the same firm that hired labourers for our engineering project in suburb of Vancouver,....direct from Serbia, Poland, Thailand and Panama. Why? Because they were paid less than Canadians..because alot of our Canadian tradespeople/labourers that we hired, were unionized and hence, higher wages, etc. Meanwhile we had alot of Canadians unemployed. Yes, things made alot of sense...

* Keep in mind before the loss of garment industry in Canada and U.S., there were some sweatshops. Some of my relatives worked in them. But at least the money earned was going back to people who are Canadian.

[Trek420]

The Chinese are great, I love 'em, they do an amazing job and I have no problems buying stuff made there and if anyone from mainland China is lurking a hale and hearty welcome to TE, the best dang place in cyberspace but ....

I want my neighbors to have/keep their jobs too.

The government can not say "let's buy made in the good 'ol USA" or anywhere else if you live somewhere else. If they were to do so everyone screams "protectionism bad bad". But we can! I think we all agree wherever you are and whether you're blue, red, green or chartreuse that we need to keep jobs in the US or wherever we all are.

So chime in; what're a few of your favorite things made here or at least in the same country.

[NbyNW]

So chime in; what're a few of your favorite things made here or at least in the same country.

Great idea! For each city I've lived in:

Pittsburgh: Heinz Ketchup
New York: Steinway pianos
SF/Bay Area: wine, sourdough, and Apple computers
Boston: New Balance shoes
Seattle: Boeing 737s
Edmonton: oil (we're all allowed a guilty pleasure, right?)

[Trek420]

Never been to Vermont .... yet. In a sea of virtually identical bags at REI Knott found:

http://www.reignvermont.com

She can wax poetic about it better than I can but I just I love it. Susan?

[shootingstar]

Great idea! For each city I've lived in:

Pittsburgh: Heinz Ketchup
New York: Steinway pianos

Ah, my partner's brother was the lead salesperson right at the Steinway factory/head office in NYC. He was a Canadian selling well on behalf for U.S. for about 10 yrs. for Steinway's. He lived in NYC.

It's a great firm with great product worldwide. It still is with Yamaha, Pearl River (not sure I got latter brand name straight), let's there's a German firm in on this too...

And Heinz, I saw just this past summer in Ontario, the satellite processing plant in Dresden area just a few kms. where a close friend lives. Near historic sites of the Underground Railroad where the black slaves got freedom in Canada. Heinz bought out the independent tomato Canadian producer there. But the tomato pickers are migrant workers from the Carribbean. can't get enough local folks to pick. We drove by their housing, saw their loaned bikes leaned against the buildings.

I dunno....about 40 kms. or so from Canada-U.S. border. I need a map again.
If Americans and vice versa, could understand how intertwined U.S.-Canada trade relations are. How interdependent these 2 countries are.

The U.S. financial industry crash sorta proved it...except Canadian banks managed to stay afloat and Canadian banking execs. still get their bonuses without govn't bailout. Just knuckling under same old Can. regulatory control that we are grateful for.

*It never hurts to request and ask other countries at least, to look after the health and safety of their workers and consumers. Expose the culprits, embarrass them abit. Maybe a few might pay attention in future.

[deeaimond]

Great idea! For each city I've lived in:

Pittsburgh: Heinz Ketchup
New York: Steinway pianos
SF/Bay Area: wine, sourdough, and Apple computers
Boston: New Balance shoes
Seattle: Boeing 737s
Edmonton: oil (we're all allowed a guilty pleasure, right?)

are Apple computers still made in the USA? I bought mine recently and (along with several other things I bought) they usually say designed in California made in China. My iMac was shipped in from Shanghai.

Susan had a good point about the quality of some good products made in China. They do have the expertise and are investing in it.

Also Smilingcat made a scary point.

I've also heard about companies who import all their parts and materials and only assemble/ finish in the US so they can label it 'made in the USA'.

[bmccasland]

There's an interesting TV ad running right now...
Small independant barber shop, been there for a long time, then a "big box" shop opens directly across the street from him and offers hair cuts for $6. So he goes to a BigBox office supply store and gets a banner sign that says "we fix $6 hair cuts" and 6 months later the competitor across the street closes.

We're supposed to feel happy because the little guy beat out his BigBox competitor. But no one was supposed to notice that he didn't go to a small business sign store for his banner. No, he bought his banner from a BigBox Office supply chain. I guess the small business sign shop was already put out of business, but the local barber still has a chance?

[OakLeaf]

Okay, this is really drifty - but related, you'll see. After hearing Joel Salatin on the radio and Wendell Berry ♥♥ in person yesterday, my thoughts strayed to the band-aid on my fingertip....

When I developed a wart a year and a half ago, the first thing I tried was the paint-on chemical wart remover that I'd used on my last wart. That turned out to be unwieldy, so I went to the drugstore and bought some chemical-impregnated pads to be taped onto the wart. After a couple of months the wart seemed to fall off... but within a few weeks it was back.

So next, I went to the drugstore and bought one of those home cryosurgery kits. Waited a week, nothing. Treated the wart again, still nothing. Started combining the home cryosurgery with the chemical wart remover (they sell combined kits, but at least I combined the treatments I already had at home rather than buying yet something else). After three or four months, including some intensive treatment of the "roots," the wart seemed to fall off... but again, within a few weeks it was back.

So FINALLY I started doing some reading and learned about apple cider vinegar. Now, so far it's only been one week, so I don't know whether this will be a permanent cure, but it's working better and MUCH faster than any of the chemical company cr*p I paid good money for - and without near the amount of damage to healthy surrounding skin.

The point being, that even someone like me who considers myself educated and informed and careful about what I buy and use - I still fell prey to chemical company marketing, and immediately, unthinkingly, three times, went for the remedies they sold me when I had a little problem, even though I already had a cheaper, safer and more effective solution on my dining room table. And messing around with their products has cost me a year and a half of playing the guitar (not that I'd been playing regularly, but I have been wanting to get back to it).

That's how difficult it is to change patterns of consumer behavior and thought.

[Trek420]

Bmccasland, That's because small local sign shop doesn't have funds for a TV ad in much the same way as your LBS or even bikes themselves don't have those kind of funds.

NbyNW, which sourdough? This is one I like:
http://www.ferrybuildingmarketplace....ad_company.php

[OakLeaf]

What's from my area?

Amish-built furniture and cabinetry;
art glass;
pottery both artistic and utilitarian;
Amish cheeses;
Longaberger baskets;
specialty rolled steel, cast iron boilers,

and plastics and chemicals - which goes to show that "local" doesn't necessarily mean "desirable."

[arielmoon]

Such great points here! I really love the input.

Sadly, it's almost like you have to thoroughly research a company before you buy something! Where items were made, the conditions they were made in, where the money goes afterward...

To make it more challenging, I am vegan and I try not to support companies that do or support animal testing.

[NbyNW]

Bmccasland, That's because small local sign shop doesn't have funds for a TV ad in much the same way as your LBS or even bikes themselves don't have those kind of funds.

NbyNW, which sourdough? This is one I like:
http://www.ferrybuildingmarketplace....ad_company.php

I was just thinking about the ubiquitous sourdough that you might get in any deli or restaurant . . . not really sure where it all came from!

Acme looks amazing! I seem to recall the ferry building was under renovation when I lived there, and I don't think I ever made it up to the Berkeley location. We usually ended up at Zachary's for pizza when we went up there.

[NbyNW]

are Apple computers still made in the USA?

You're right, they're not, I just couldn't resist putting them on my list. We could probably have a whole separate thread as to whether "Designed in the USA" counts or not. I think the Intel chips are made/designed in the USA - anyone know for sure?

There are so many great products designed in the USA that are manufactured all or on part elsewhere. I think the issue then becomes whether it is being done ethically, and in a nation where we do want to support trade. Trade is not necessarily a bad thing. Hopefully our trade partners are buying about as much from us as we are from them.