Maybe am still conversative?

[Crankin]

I am not horrified by anything I wore to high school, because after 2 months at Miami Palmetto HS, I told my parents I refused to go back for my junior year. I went to a very small private school, where I could not even wear pants to school, in 1969-1971. So while my friends in Newton, MA were demonstrating on the Boston Common and generally not doing anything to please teachers and parents (who were also smoking weed and demonstrating), I was thrown backwards about 10 years. I did wear midriff tops, sans bra on the weekends, and skirts as short as I could get away with at school. I do remember "hot pants," but I don't think I work those to school. Seriously, granny dresses were in style while I was in HS and the beginning of college, so no skimpy stuff there.
I started dressing quite a bit brazenly, in the 80s, when I was teaching aerobics. But, I wore suits to work, and I think it was almost like I had 2 personas: the professional looking teacher and the slightly trashy looking gym instructor. Seriously, I was quite proud of my body, so I put it out there. I was only in my early to mid thirties, so it wasn't so inappropriate.

[rocknrollgirl]

I teach in a public high school and what I have to say on this subject would probably crash the system. Suffice to say I am in favor of a dress code that is appropriate and enforced. I am tired of looking at their butt cheeks all day. I love fashion, and I express my style through fashion. I fully support young women expressing their style through fashion......that is appropriate for school, which is their place of business right now.

The young lady in the original article looks adorable. To go out. Not for school. that being said, I see 10x worse every single day. Butt cheeks, full cleavage and now that the weather is warm, lots of backless dress sans bra, so add some side views in. Not appropriate.

This is how you get from point A, the young lady in the photo which most of you said was not so bad, to point B, what I am describing. There has to be a standard, some limit, some line which is not crossed, or many, many young ladies, in my school at least, will and do cross the line into scantily clad, every day.

Sorry to rant, but I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO tired of looking at it.

[lph]

I teach in a public high school and what I have to say on this subject would probably crash the system. Suffice to say I am in favor of a dress code that is appropriate and enforced. I am tired of looking at their butt cheeks all day. I love fashion, and I express my style through fashion. I fully support young women expressing their style through fashion......that is appropriate for school, which is their place of business right now.

The young lady in the original article looks adorable. To go out. Not for school. that being said, I see 10x worse every single day. Butt cheeks, full cleavage and now that the weather is warm, lots of backless dress sans bra, so add some side views in. Not appropriate.

This is how you get from point A, the young lady in the photo which most of you said was not so bad, to point B, what I am describing. There has to be a standard, some limit, some line which is not crossed, or many, many young ladies, in my school at least, will and do cross the line into scantily clad, every day.

Sorry to rant, but I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO tired of looking at it.

Oh, but I agree. She looks fine to me, but I'm all in favour of a clear dress code that actually is enforced. What I'm not in favour of is unclear or vague dress codes, like this school apparently had, which opens up to all sorts of judgemental discussions where it's easy to shame someone for liking something you don't, or for not understanding something that you find self-evident. (Not, you as in you, rnrgirl :-)) "Clothing has to cover the midriff and upper thigh" is fine. "Clothing has to be appropriate and non-offensive" (or however it might be put) is not.

[Helene2013]

I showed the picture to 3 people at work and all 3 were clear that this is not a dresscode for school. To go out, fine... but not to school. And all 3 women have kids, some going to high school or college. They said that the skirt is fine but the top is too bra-looking, not enough covering and inappropriate for school and that the school was right in sending her home to change. This can be a huge debate and I can see why it went on the media.
I see it like one person's freedom ends where another's begins.

I wonder if the way we "read" how people should or not dress is not something "local" to their area.

[OakLeaf]

I see it like one person's freedom ends where another's begins.

See, THAT's the only attitude that's really controversial about these things. How in the world does what someone ELSE wears, infringe on MY freedom? And why is it only what girls and women wear, that infringe on boys' and men's freedom, and not the other way around? There's where the problem lies.

Do we even want to open the can of worms about how some people think some women are oppressed because they wear too MANY clothes?

I think the examples I gave from my own life illustrate the ONLY reason that's legitimate to talk about what to wear.

My wearing homemade cult-style dresses and non-matching clunky shoes to work in a law office, before I taught myself better, was every bit as inappropriate as my showing my barely panty-covered butt to the Bishop in church.

It's what fashion dictates is appropriate for the occasion and location. That changes with the times and it's different from place to place - as Americans traveling in Europe often find. Nothing to do with sex, not really; nothing to do with anyone's "freedom" except the person wearing the clothes. The tension between individualism and conformity will never end. But one hopes that men will someday stop using women's clothing as a way to control and shame women.

[Helene2013]

Oakleaf,

You are right. And is it only in today's world that we seem to complicate too many things so often or was it just more "hidden" in the good old days.

Why are we always criticizing what a girl/woman wears. How often do we see remarks on what guys are wearing at Galas, etc. How many times do we hear someone say "she should not dress that way as it creates double-messages, etc.".

What about those guys on billboard...do we say that because he's only in underwear that he's too little dressed vs women doing the same ad which would be provoking, or sexually related? Getting away from subject but the point is why are we like we are vs women?

Wondering if the student was a male and came in class with something else than "standard" code, would he have been returned home to change?

We did get something similar in Montreal a year ago (May 30th)
http://globalnews.ca/news/1364959/mo...ol-dress-code/

[rocknrollgirl]

Not for nothing, but our young men have a dress code also.

[salsabike]

Well said, Oak.

And there is no fashion situation on this earth that will ever make me think that seeing butt cheeks is okay. Blech.

[rocknrollgirl]

Wondering if the student was a male and came in class with something else than "standard" code, would he have been returned home to change?

The answer is yes, but it happens much less often. A handful of times in my career. The young ladies are every day.

[Helene2013]

Thank you Rocknrollgirl for your answer. It seems we rarely see guys having issues on that front.

[rocknrollgirl]

I thought about this all day yesterday. Every time I saw a student inappropriately dresses. I think some of you would be shocked if you saw in person what they are wearing to school. Or what they are not wearing.

[rebeccaC]

Oh, but I agree. She looks fine to me, but I'm all in favour of a clear dress code that actually is enforced. What I'm not in favour of is unclear or vague dress codes.

..and being strict on NOT using shame, blame or humiliation in the process of dealing with an infraction… and also for a productive learning environment for all students start by teaching them to respect each other’s bodies and to do that regardless of what their peers are wearing…..and have honest discussions about the hyper sexualization of American culture and it’s effect on girls and boys….and how problematic normalizing the notion that girls bodies are distractions can be to young girls…and how fetishizing the number of inches between the hem of a skirt and the top of a knee is perverse…teach them that women wearing shorts in public was illegal in a number of U.S. cities up until the 1950's...about when a women showing a ankle or god forbid a leg was seen as an advertisement for adultery...and how preparing students to become independent thinkers is what's important.

…but then if I was told my bare shoulders and back from wearing a halter top to school caused distractions to boys then I’d say those boys needed to be sent home until they’ve learned enough self control to come back. That kind of distraction messaging lands itself squarely on a continuum that can also blame girls and women for assault by men…it’ll be her fault for wearing tight pants, or a belly shirt, or short skirt, or for drinking too much, or walking alone etc etc…

hoping things improve for you rnrgirl....i'm sure there are some problems in some schools...my problem is with how it is handled and how young girls can be affected in a negative way by how it is handled. as i wrote earlier in this thread building positive self-identity by parents, school administrators writing dress codes and especially doing enforcement or through peers is a component i see as important. I have a cousin who went through this a couple of years ago in her high school. She and some of her friends caused some positive changes in the way the school addressed the problems. We had some good conversations about it at the time...and it was a good learning experience for her.

[Crankin]

That kind of education has to start young, early and often, and in the home... as the mother of 2 boys, I often felt it was my mission to make sure no woman ever said, "Didn't your mother teach you...?" However, after working with teens for a very long time, I can assure you that trying to talk to any adolescent in school about shaming, blaming, over sexualization, etc. probably won't make much of a difference, for several reasons. First, this is a societal issue. If these things are discussed in school, and then adolescent boys go home to hear their dad make comments about women's bodies, they are getting reinforced for their behavior in a way that means more than whatever a teacher says. Secondly, schools are, by nature, bastions of conservative behavior and change comes slowly. I don't necessarily think this good, but I have to agree with Rock n Roll on this one. If I had a daughter, I would never have allowed her to go to school wearing things showing butt crack or cleavage, the same way I did not let my sons wear their pants so low that their cracks were showing... the issue is when schools say that dressing in a certain way will distract the boys. It should only be an issue of knowing that there are different ways of dressing that are appropriate for specific situations and school is one of them.
However, I can see the teenage eyes glazing over and rolling with any type of this discussion. That's why it needs to start in the home and early. And the law is no help when trying to adhere to school dress codes. When I took school law, I remember reading about tons of these cases that one by one, would be over turned. One would be the standard, and then there would be a different decision.

[rocknrollgirl]

I helped write our dress code a while back. I do not think it says anything about being a distraction to anyone. Just that it is not appropriate dress for school, based on the idea that this is for now anyway, their place of business. Top must meet bottom, shoulders must be covered, no hats etc.

[Crankin]

OK, here's another question for everyone, in the same area. Rocknroll's school dress code says no hats. I totally agree (unless it's a religious head cover), but everywhere I go, men are wearing baseball caps. They don't take them off anywhere; in restaurants, and sometimes in places where wearing a casual type of cap is inappropriate in my book. Around here, there seems to be a certain type of 40-50 something male who never takes his hat off.
Again, if your dad wears a hat inside, all of the time, it's hard for a school to tell a kid you can't do that. My DH feels the same way, and besides, he'd never be caught wearing a baseball cap. My sons don't wear them, either.
And don't get me started on those "pink" Red Sox caps...