New bike - toe overlap

[lunacycles]

Like everyone here has said, it's not a big deal once you get used to it. And, yes, too often big companies compromise frame geometry simply to avoid it...and that's not good. So if you are small and you can live with it, usually, I say "great!"

However, I go out of my way not to design it into a bike that I know will do loaded touring. Whereas on an unloaded bike, it is easy to correct/respond to, it can be dicier if, say, you are going 6 mph uphill with 40 lbs on your bike, rear loaded, or rear and front loaded. It just requires more muscle to respond to when the bike is loaded, and is hard to respond as quickly, especially at slow speeds which is when it tends to occur. Everyone will tell you it won't happen (crank forward with the wheel being turned in the opposite direction is not a natural position), but it just does happen now and then, regardless of your skill, and is more likely to happen at slower speeds, and often loaded touring speeds are slow speeds. Just something to be aware of. With 40 lbs on the bike, it would not be fun to go down.

It would be helpful to know how much toe overlap you have, as you may be able to something about it. For example, who set up your cleats, or are you using toe clips? The use of toe clips makes toe overlap much more likely. Cleats set far back on the shoe's sole make toe overlap likely. What length crank do you have, and is it appropriate for your inseam? If your bike has a longer crank than what is ideal for you, switching to a shorter one might help eliminate toe overlap (but not a good fix if you don't really need shorter cranks). Finally, and maybe most simply, going to a somewhat smaller profile tire may reduce or eliminate your toe overlap. If you can reduce it to a "brush" instead of a "bump" it won't affect you much when it does happen...even with 40 lbs of gear on your bike.

[KnottedYet]

Margo - what do you do when it is toe-fender overlap, like SLash is experiencing?

[SLash]

Like everyone here has said, it's not a big deal once you get used to it. And, yes, too often big companies compromise frame geometry simply to avoid it...and that's not good. So if you are small and you can live with it, usually, I say "great!"

However, I go out of my way not to design it into a bike that I know will do loaded touring. Whereas on an unloaded bike, it is easy to correct/respond to, it can be dicier if, say, you are going 6 mph uphill with 40 lbs on your bike, rear loaded, or rear and front loaded. It just requires more muscle to respond to when the bike is loaded, and is hard to respond as quickly, especially at slow speeds which is when it tends to occur. Everyone will tell you it won't happen (crank forward with the wheel being turned in the opposite direction is not a natural position), but it just does happen now and then, regardless of your skill, and is more likely to happen at slower speeds, and often loaded touring speeds are slow speeds. Just something to be aware of. With 40 lbs on the bike, it would not be fun to go down.

It would be helpful to know how much toe overlap you have, as you may be able to something about it. For example, who set up your cleats, or are you using toe clips? The use of toe clips makes toe overlap much more likely. Cleats set far back on the shoe's sole make toe overlap likely. What length crank do you have, and is it appropriate for your inseam? If your bike has a longer crank than what is ideal for you, switching to a shorter one might help eliminate toe overlap (but not a good fix if you don't really need shorter cranks). Finally, and maybe most simply, going to a somewhat smaller profile tire may reduce or eliminate your toe overlap. If you can reduce it to a "brush" instead of a "bump" it won't affect you much when it does happen...even with 40 lbs of gear on your bike.

Thanks very much, I appreciate everything you said. I actually have very little toe overlap. First, I moved the fender in towards the tire slightly, still enough room between fender and tire. I put my bike on the rack, clipped my shoe in (on this bike I'm going to use the spd pedal/with platform on flip side) turned the cranks while moving the wheel and the only place they touched (it wasn't a stop but more of a graze) was when the pedal was at about the 2:00 position (3:00 being straight and not touching there) and the shoe caught the rubber tips of the wire thing that attaches the fender. So, if i trim that 1/4-1/2 inch I'm not sure it would make any contact. Even not trimming it except for that 2:00 to maybe 2:30 place in the revolution of the crank it isn't an issue.

As far as the crank, that's something I've thought about too and plan to talk to the lbs about when I go back. I have 170mm cranks now. I'm 5'5", actually I'm 5' 4.5" due to shrinkage (aging. blah.) and atypical in that I am longer in the torso than legs. So a shorter crank I would think might be appropriate.

So where things stand now, with the adjustment of the fender the t.o. isn't much of a problem or at least doesn't appear to be based on what I'm seeing. Again, by possibly trimming the wire fender things slightly that could take care of it. Not sure if I was clear but they actually extend past the fender about an inch, and are capped with rubber tips. There are two, about an inch apart - on either side of the fender. The fenders are minimalist style. They are flat, brushed aluminum, and maybe 2.5 inches wide. I won't do anything with them until the lbs checks it and we can look at other alternatives such as crank length.

The true test will be riding. I will talk to the lbs about the crank and whether shorter would be appropriate without compromising on fit. Thanks again.

[lunacycles]

wow...geez!...where did I miss it was a fender causing your toe overlap? Sorry for that. I totally missed it. Then, really...No big deal! Just remove the fender, or go with a shorty when you load it up for touring (so the fender doesn't go far down enough behind the back of the front tire to be an issue with your toe). Seriously, fender causing toe overlap is very common, kind of the price you pay for having full length fenders on a smallish bike...

No big deal.

[SLash]

wow...geez!...where did I miss it was a fender causing your toe overlap? Sorry for that. I totally missed it. Then, really...No big deal! Just remove the fender, or go with a shorty when you load it up for touring (so the fender doesn't go far down enough behind the back of the front tire to be an issue with your toe). Seriously, fender causing toe overlap is very common, kind of the price you pay for having full length fenders on a smallish bike...

No big deal.

Margo, yes it is just the fender. The fender does go down far but it only interferes with my shoes where those wire things extend past it. Look at this picture, it shows it better than I can explain it. Although it doesn't show how the wires extend past the fender because since i moved my fender closer to the tire it now goes past it... just needs a trim.

[Catrin]

That is one beautiful bike!

[SLash]

That is one beautiful bike!

Thanks Catrin, I just love her!

[nscrbug]

I have some toe-overlap on my 51cm Cervelo Soloist, however I also wear a size 10 1/2 shoe...so perhaps the combination of the compact frame design and my bozo feet are creating the TO issue for me. It's really only an issue when I'm riding super-slow and happen to turn the wheel, full-lock in either direction...so since I'm fully aware of it, I try and avoid those scenarios.

[OakLeaf]

Yeah, now that I think about it, the 50 cm Synapse comes with 170 mm cranks, and I had the shop swap them out for the 165s I need. So in stock trim on that bike, I definitely would have toe overlap.

Then again, I have huge feet.

[fallstoclimb]

Resurrecting this thread because I am having trouble with toe overlap with my brand new (42 cm) Surly Cross Check. I had briefly wondered if I should have gone with the Long Haul Trucker with the smaller wheels, but I wanted the speediness of the Cross Check and most people at the store dismissed TO as a real concern. I'm finding I'm having trouble with it, when maneuvering at slow speeds, getting started from a stop up a hill, navigating an off-road portion, etc.

All that happens so far is scraping the tire with the edge of my cage, but I worry that worse may happen one day. I'm also definitely funneling all of typical post-large-purchase buyer's remorse into the TO issue so it's hard to tease out how much is REALLY an issue.

Tonight my husband is going to put on clipless pedals, I'm REALLY REALLY hoping that'll improve the problem. I'm comfortable with clipless but this is my touring and commuting bike, and for commuting I usually use a pair of Danskos because they are warmer than my road shoes. There's always booties, I guess.

Maybe smaller tires would help too? The bike came with 41s, we switched them out for -- either 35s or 38s, I can't remember which.

[Seajay]

Resurrecting this thread because I am having trouble with toe overlap with my brand new (42 cm) Surly Cross Check.

I send my small frame clients out to the grass park in flat pedals and regular shoes. "Go out and rub your foot on the tire doing slow U turns."
You'll soon learn what it takes to avoid it, realize that its only a problem at low speed U turns and be accustomed to the feel if it does happen later.

Have the shop trim the struts so they don't extend past the fender itself.
If you bought the stylish fenders with the loop struts....maybe time to ditch them.
Worst case, drill out the strut rivet. Cut the fender short enough to miss your foot, reattach the strut.

Seajay

[fallstoclimb]

I send my small frame clients out to the grass park in flat pedals and regular shoes. "Go out and rub your foot on the tire doing slow U turns."
You'll soon learn what it takes to avoid it, realize that its only a problem at low speed U turns and be accustomed to the feel if it does happen later.

Have the shop trim the struts so they don't extend past the fender itself.
If you bought the stylish fenders with the loop struts....maybe time to ditch them.
Worst case, drill out the strut rivet. Cut the fender short enough to miss your foot, reattach the strut.

Seajay

So unfortunately it was caused by the tire, not a fender, but fortunately going clipless 100% fixed the problem. I even tried to manufacture toe overlap this morning with no luck. Its a bit of a pain because changing in the bathroom stall is more difficult with my bike shoes than my slip on Danskos, but that's a small price to pay for getting this bike to work for me (because except for the TO I love it SO much).

Might not be able to put fenders on it when I tour with it, but that's a problem for another day.

[ny biker]

So unfortunately it was caused by the tire, not a fender, but fortunately going clipless 100% fixed the problem. I even tried to manufacture toe overlap this morning with no luck. Its a bit of a pain because changing in the bathroom stall is more difficult with my bike shoes than my slip on Danskos, but that's a small price to pay for getting this bike to work for me (because except for the TO I love it SO much).

Might not be able to put fenders on it when I tour with it, but that's a problem for another day.

I'm glad you solved the overlap problem. But I'm curious about the changing-clothes part -- do you wear your bike shoes at work?

Also re: booties to keep your feet warm -- in cool but not cold weather, toe covers might suffice. Plastic wrap or paper towels around your toes inside the shoes will help in a pinch if you've got nothing else. Woolie Boolie socks are awesome if they don't make the shoes too tight, and neoprene booties are best when it's really cold (key word being neoprene-- booties made from different fabric are not as warm).

[fallstoclimb]

Haha no I don't work in bike shoes! But if I'm in heels or boots (most of the time), it's difficult to change from my bike shorts to my work pants in the bathroom stall by balancing on the shoes, which was my strategy with the Danskos. I had a heart to heart with myself though and decided that I'm okay with standing on the bathroom floor in my socks.

I was thrilled to find a pair of toe covers I forgot I owned (because I tend to hang up the road bike by the time they are necessary. We will find out this winter how low of temps they handle! I am not sure if they are made of neoprene or not, I should check on that.

[ny biker]

Haha no I don't work in bike shoes! But if I'm in heels or boots (most of the time), it's difficult to change from my bike shorts to my work pants in the bathroom stall by balancing on the shoes, which was my strategy with the Danskos. I had a heart to heart with myself though and decided that I'm okay with standing on the bathroom floor in my socks.

I was thrilled to find a pair of toe covers I forgot I owned (because I tend to hang up the road bike by the time they are necessary. We will find out this winter how low of temps they handle! I am not sure if they are made of neoprene or not, I should check on that.

I totally know how you feel about standing on the bathroom floor. When I'm going to be changing into bike clothes after work, I typically wear sneakers or sandals because they're easy to get on and off, I can stand on them while I'm changing, and they don't look totally weird with the bike shorts. In cold weather I wear short shearling-lined boots, and I've been able to manage changing with them.

Would it work to put one (or two) of those paper seat covers on the floor, and stand on that?