He probably said Paris and with all of the reading I've been doing, just had Prince in my brain. So, I'm sure you're right that it was the Paris, as we're looking at 2013 frames. The LBS is going to build up the frameset for me with Campy Chorus 11. That's kind of my "must have". Too many years riding Campagnolo and the bikes I've test ridden with Shimano or SRAM - I just don't like the shifting. It's really about personal preference because they are all good gruppos. I was excited to see Wilier was coming out with a complete bike with Campy Chorus 11 because price-wise it was significantly lower than building up from the frameset. But it's not going to be offered, so I'm back to building up from the frameset. Right now I'm looking at full Campy Chorus and Fulcrum wheels. Mavic is also an option, but we're close to the upper end of my self-imposed budget. He did say that we can't get exact geometry as my Klein because they just don't make frames that aggressive anymore - short wheelbase, short headtube, rake of the fork, very stiff in the bb, etc. Everything I've ridden has been much more relaxed, even those that are racy geometry and just material alone makes it a softer ride than aluminum. I think I'm heading in the right direction, but still have a lot to learn about carbon bikes and what's available. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone within a few hours that carries Orbea. Right now the options are Wilier, Pinarello, Scott, Ridley, Bianchi, and Eddy Merckx. Surely I'll find something in my price range among those. Thanks for the info... I'll have to read up on the "cloth" you are talking about because that's new to me.