removing a bike lane

[shootingstar]

I guess different jurisdictions have different problems. It may well be that Vancouver has less snow and hence, less gravel, sand piles around that its separated bike lanes don't have that problem.

Oak, in Vancouver we live within l km. radius of 3 major on road separated bike lanes that run into the downtown core and do connect to some other painted bike lanes.

Just because 1 city/area had 1 bad experience doesn't mean it's applicable to all areas of North America.

Calgary does have enough snow where gravel, sand gather on the sides in bike lanes. Then the city does sweep it...later in spring. It has strong policy that it carries through to clear significant km. of its interconnected bike pathway systems during winter whenever there is a snowfall. I live near one of the major arteries, so I know. I will credit the municipality for this work.

[OakLeaf]

Well, I give a lot of credit to places that have special machines narrow enough to sweep separated bike lanes, but I've never seen one. And I doubt that any place, in any country, that doesn't have that kind of machines now, is going to get them in this economy.

But debris removal is only half of the equation, and the smaller half, IMO. There's no way to avoid intersection conflicts when there are separated lanes, and guess who always loses when there's an intersection conflict.

I may only have been in my 20s at the time, I was old enough to be aware of all the long-time cycling advocates in Columbus's highly developed cycling community, advocating for the lane separators to be removed.

[redeyedtreefr0g]

I'm extremely happy to have a Greenway multi-use path in my new home town, but I was confused as to why you couldn't access it from the bike lane. You have to know to get on the sidewalk early, stop and lift your bike over the curb, or simply ride on the sidewalk all the time. I prefer the bike lane, because people just don't check the sidewalk at intersections, often they do funny turns at roadways instead of continuing in a logical path, and in my old town they were littered with glass and had annoying dips constantly at driveways as well as mailboxes cemented into the middle of the concrete. Here the sidewalks are better, but I still prefer the predictable bike lane.

I've never had a separated bike lane. I did enjoy the very wide roads in the town I moved from- I felt very safe and cars were almost always courteous and passed safely.

[happyscientist]

I understand your frustration with having the bike lanes removed, but I think they are the wrong approach. Why don't drivers' tests have questions that address the rights of cyclists on the road? I see plenty of ads on TV and billboards telling drivers to keep an eye open for motorcycles. We should have the same thing for bicycles. They could address the misconception that we should be riding on the shoulders, when the shoulders are so much more dangerous than the road.

[OakLeaf]

I'm willing to be open minded about the concept that bike lanes could work in some places ... but I'm (1) curious about the execution and (2) also afraid that those places might be used as examples by planners in other places where they would clearly be dangerous - as you're informally doing.

So enlighten me on the two most common issues.

(1) Proceeding straight through an intersection. How are the bike lane separators designed so that cyclists are clearly visible to vehicles that are turning right from the cyclists' left? How do vehicles intending to turn right from the cross street, onto the street where the cyclist is, pull up so that they can see the traffic running parallel to the bike lane, without interfering with the cyclists' ability to go straight?

(2) Turning left. How, when and where does the cyclist exit the separator and weave their way over to the left traffic lane?

[Eden]

A while back someone posted an example of how intersections would be handled with separated cycle tracks. Crosswalks were moved back and a ring of green zones were painted in front of them. There was a gap in the curbing at each crooks walk/ geen zone, but the corner itself was curbed. Cyclists were expected to travel around the long way - in essence creating a traffic circle, but just for the bikes.

I prsonally thought it looked a bit nightmarish, as I view every intersection as a potential left/right hook and with that scenario the number of intersections is tripled......

[shootingstar]

Sounds like atypical install for a sesparated bike lane, Eden.

No matter what separated bike lane is installed, there does need to be lights installed at the intersections particularily for busy roads. Preferably with green bike lights, pedestrian-cyclist activated lights...which are found at various bike routes in Vancouver. NOT in Calgary. (It's so sad, to be pedestrian or cyclist in our downtown area while you wait.)

The reality in some areas, the cars have to slow down in general. The car drivers are forced to be less important and slow down by having less car lanes on a road. (This is road diet..reducing the number of car lanes, installing pedestrian-cyclist activated traffic lights so that the street area is more pedestrian-bike friendly.) So where do cars go?:...that's why a city tries to have public transit...


Or the bike lane intersects a one way street...which doesn't even permit a right hand turn.

As for the right hand turn...it's less of problem if it's only 1 car lane that can turn right. Not 2 lanes of car traffic turning right...really intimidating in Calgary. A bike lane running through this road configuration could not be done in this type of situation. Very common in this city. I've never seen it downtown Vancouver. I don't recall 2 lanes of right hand turning traffic in downtown Toronto or maybe I avoided it. I have cycled downtown Vancouver and Toronto alot since I lived/worked in these areas for several years.

This bike path is over 15 km. long 1 way. At one point it devolves into a bike lane from the bike path. So there needed to be physical barrier separation from trucks.
By Toronto's Waterfront, on other side is a community garden around for the last 20 yrs. See thumbnail at end of my email. I can't seem to attach the photo correctly.

This is a well-known separated bike lane that runs into downtown Vancouver, Dunsmuir St.




Why are bike paths so evil to some cyclists? I firmly disagree. Otherwise you end up on the major Trans-Canada highway with cars gunning down at 110 km. per hr. beside you on wide shoulder.
This is a new bike path that's 24 km. long one way between a Canmore and Banff National Park. Now there are more cyclists --experienced and newbies. As well as children.



Dearies' blog just on the front page has a range of photos illustrating some bike lanes, some good, others not great when he cycled across U.S. this summer-fall and earlier in Europe. Actually his blog has a ton of examples....it's part of what he does when he cycle-touring: http://thirdwavecyclingblog.wordpress.com

So is this a terrible thing below? Or should there be a slightly raised curb for this/barrier?

[shootingstar]

So enlighten me on the two most common issues.

(1) Proceeding straight through an intersection. How are the bike lane separators designed so that cyclists are clearly visible to vehicles that are turning right from the cyclists' left? How do vehicles intending to turn right from the cross street, onto the street where the cyclist is, pull up so that they can see the traffic running parallel to the bike lane, without interfering with the cyclists' ability to go straight?

One way to deal with improving the visibility of cyclists stopping at an intersection in a separated bike lane, is to have the roadway markings for stopping the cars, that is slightly staggered behind the first cyclist that stops at the corner.

I'm not confident that just having wider roads is going to get car drivers to pay attention or more respectful. I just don't think car drivers think that widening a road is for cyclists (without a painted bike lane), they tend to think widening a road lane is for them as car drivers and to move more quickly. Let's get real.

Dearie and I were cycling on one of the San Juan Islands and were stunned how wide some the road lanes were....on an island. It made no sense. The traffic was quite moderate. We were cycling in some small towns on a weekday when people were working... a more accurate reflection of regular traffic patterns.