Paleo diet?

[Catrin]

Makes sense. You and my SO are sort of the same. While he's not paleo, he can just go ride for 20 miles without eating anything. Anything longer, he does have to eat. I can't fathom leaving the house without breakfast! I must not be terribly efficient at accessing fat stores. Hey, adrenal glands! Get with the program!

From what I am coming to understand, and I could be wrong, our body will use the carbs for energy if they exist before it will start tapping into the fat stores. That is probably a very simplistic understanding, and I am just starting to read on this. Obviously carbs come from many sources, not just the usual prospects, but if your body is accustomed to a certain level of carbs then it becomes very efficient at using them for energy and will complain if those accustomed levels aren't there.

I am becoming more and more curious about this - especially some research that appears to indicate that a primal diet is very good for those of us prone to insulin resistance. At some point I think I will need to give this a shot, but I need to have a better understanding first so I can make educated choices during that trial period.

I don't know that I would ever go 100% Paelo/primal - I like beer even though I may not drink more than 1-2 a week, and my occasional small dose of Blue Bell ice cream.

Rest day today if I like it or not - so will have time to do some good reading this evening...

[westtexas]

I don't know that I would ever go 100% Paelo/primal - I like beer even though I may not drink more than 1-2 a week, and my occasional small dose of Blue Bell ice cream.

To me, this is the beauty of this "diet". It's more of a lifestyle and less of just what you are putting in your mouth. Even Mark Sisson (the Primal Blueprint/Mark's Daily Apple) talks about the 80/20 rule - 80% of the time you follow the plan with an allowance for 20% cheating - and he even gives suggestions for cheats that are "not-so-bad" for you, like red wine, dark chocolate, that bowl of full fat icecream. And I totally cheat, because I love popcorn and soda at the movies and I seriously cannot resist the chocolate bread pudding at my favorite restaurant.

I think it's about doing the best you can, for yourself and for your body, by feeding it right and enjoying yourself every now and then - even monkeys in jungles know how to eat fermented fruit that's spoiled so they can get buzzed.

I read an article once about Are You Paleo Enough? and it discussed how there are a lot of folk out there in the paleo community who think if you don't do it 100% all the time, how dare you even call yourself paleo, get thee back on your Standard American Diet. When really, every small change in the nutrition you put in your body has a positive effect. Life just really can't be that black and white.

[Becky]

To me, this is the beauty of this "diet". It's more of a lifestyle and less of just what you are putting in your mouth. Even Mark Sisson (the Primal Blueprint/Mark's Daily Apple) talks about the 80/20 rule - 80% of the time you follow the plan with an allowance for 20% cheating - and he even gives suggestions for cheats that are "not-so-bad" for you, like red wine, dark chocolate, that bowl of full fat icecream. And I totally cheat, because I love popcorn and soda at the movies and I seriously cannot resist the chocolate bread pudding at my favorite restaurant.

I think it's about doing the best you can, for yourself and for your body, by feeding it right and enjoying yourself every now and then - even monkeys in jungles know how to eat fermented fruit that's spoiled so they can get buzzed.

I read an article once about Are You Paleo Enough? and it discussed how there are a lot of folk out there in the paleo community who think if you don't do it 100% all the time, how dare you even call yourself paleo, get thee back on your Standard American Diet. When really, every small change in the nutrition you put in your body has a positive effect. Life just really can't be that black and white.

Thank you for this, particularly the last paragraph. I've found myself reluctant to mention "paleo", since neither DH nor I are inclined to fully give up grains and booze. I made baigan bharta last night and felt a little guilty for serving it over brown rice, despite the fact that I had to stretch it somehow in order to feed both of us.

Sounds like I need to start reading Mark's Daily Apple for some motivation!

[GLC1968]

I totally agree that you don't have to be 100% to get huge benefits (unless you have other health problems, of course). The first 9 or so months that I was paleo, we were eating pizza every couple of weeks, for pete's sake!!

Until I did this Whole30, I honestly didn't think I could be 100% paleo either. I regularly used raw honey, dark chocolate, wine, etc. I thought that giving it ALL up would be pure hell and I didn't want to live my life that way (and for me, paleo was about permanent lifestyle changes...not a 'diet').

What I HAVE found is that if I want to lose fat and really be 'fat-adapted' (which is a really awesome way to be partially for the reasons westtexas mentioned and partially because I no longer have to carry food with me wherever I go...including no longer packing a massive lunch bag for work), I cannot let all the little things sneak in. Generally, 80/20 doesn't work for me. I've seen a lot of evidence towards this and if you've ever been in a weight loss challenge with a man, you'll be able to relate. Mark Sisson and many other men in the paleo world can be fit, lean and cut on 80/20. Most women cannot. In fact, the only three women I know in the paleo world who are as lean as the men (from a feminine perspective) are Sarah Fragoso, Nell Stephenson and Melissa Hartwig. All three eat a cleaner than 80/20 diet. I think that's the reality of it, women are not as good at being 'fat-adapted' and we have to work a little harder to live that way. I'm sure it stems from the natural state of things where as child-bearing beings, women are naturally supposed to carry more fat than men.

If you want the health benefits of paleo, 80/20 is fines. If you want the fat loss, you probably have to be cleaner. My hope is that I can get to where I want to be and then live 80/20...but we'll see. 90/10 is fine with me too.

Anyway, I had sushi on Friday (with rice) and it was delicious and I had no ill effects. So now I know that I can eat sushi every once in awhile and I fully intend to!

[solobiker]

I have been off and on with the paleo lifestyle...I have eaten very clean with no cheating for close to 3 weeks and have gained about 4 pounds. I am pretty frustrated by this. I know it is a healty way to eat...but why the 4 pounds...?? My typical daily intake is below:

B: Eggs ( usually 1 but sometimes 2) with some chicken sausage and veggies

S: I sometimes do not have a snack but if I do it is a small piece of fruit like an apple

L: Chicken and lots of chopped up veggies

D: Big salad, no dressing and some meat...fish, steak.

I will occ have some nut butter with celery for a snack as well.

To me I seem to be eating pretty clean...maybe it is the nut butter's high calorie content. Any insight from those of you that had good results.. And I have been taking measurements and there is no change there either. I am 42 so maybe it is an "old" lady issue I also get a fair amount of exercise in. Sorry for the venting...just frustrated.

[GLC1968]

I know it's counter-intuitive and I would have flat out argued against what I'm about to say even just a few months ago.

1) I don't think you are eating enough fat
2) I don't think you are eating enough calories

#1 would clearly take care of #2, though. Yes, calories count, I'm not arguing otherwise...I just think that we have gotten entirely too used to too few calories and our bodies are confused. I should add up a typical day...maybe I'll do that tonight if I have time, but I am eating WAY more now than I ever have and I'm steadily losing fat even without exercise (or much of it, anyway).

Came back to add that I'm 44, so it's not the age thing!

[Catrin]

I HAVE had large issues with not consuming enough calories - you might remember my venting about this earlier in the year. When we don't get enough our bodies just don't want to give our fat stores up - and it is true that we have to work harder than men to do this.

While I've not lost a lot once I increased my calorie intake by close to 40%, I've really not gained anything either. My weight is trending about 2 pounds lower than before I added the calories. My diet is pretty clean where processed and whole foods are concerned, but of course I've still been eating sprouted grain bread and whole grains about 2-3 times a day.

GLC - do you eat snacks, or before you go on a long ride? Westtexas' comment that she didn't even have to eat before going out to ride got my attention. Obviously she didn't just start eating this way the other day...

[Owlie]

From what I am coming to understand, and I could be wrong, our body will use the carbs for energy if they exist before it will start tapping into the fat stores. That is probably a very simplistic understanding, and I am just starting to read on this. Obviously carbs come from many sources, not just the usual prospects, but if your body is accustomed to a certain level of carbs then it becomes very efficient at using them for energy and will complain if those accustomed levels aren't there.

I am becoming more and more curious about this - especially some research that appears to indicate that a primal diet is very good for those of us prone to insulin resistance. At some point I think I will need to give this a shot, but I need to have a better understanding first so I can make educated choices during that trial period.

I don't know that I would ever go 100% Paelo/primal - I like beer even though I may not drink more than 1-2 a week, and my occasional small dose of Blue Bell ice cream.

Rest day today if I like it or not - so will have time to do some good reading this evening...

Biochemist. I am aware of this.

My not leaving the house without breakfast is less carb-driven, though topping off the fuel tank so I'm not burning my glycogen supply right out of the gate helps. It's protein and fat. I can do bacon, an egg and a single slice of buttered toast for breakfast and be happy, riding or not. My normal morning breakfast cereal is quite generous with the pecans, which helps with the protein and fat.

So a modified version of Paleo (that allows for beer and cheesecake and butter and all that good stuff) might work. I know I operate better on a higher fat and protein diet, anyway.

[Catrin]

Biochemist. I am aware of this.

I forgot that... sorry!

[westtexas]

So a modified version of Paleo (that allows for beer and cheesecake and butter and all that good stuff) might work. I know I operate better on a higher fat and protein diet, anyway.

Speaking of butter... have you tried Ghee?? Mmm buttery deliciousness without the dairy. My system is not coconut oil friendly, so that's what I use to make my omelettes in the morning... and essentially other meat product that tastes great with butter. Also veggies.

[Catrin]

Speaking of butter... have you tried Ghee?? Mmm buttery deliciousness without the dairy. My system is not coconut oil friendly, so that's what I use to make my omelettes in the morning... and essentially other meat product that tastes great with butter. Also veggies.

hmm, will have to check this out.

I've been doing a lot of reading on Mark Apple's site which has been rather attention getting, especially his discussion on the carbohydrate curve. I checked out his "Primal Blueprint" electronically from my library along with "The Paleo Answer". I am waiting for a hard copy of "The Paleo Diet" to show up from the library.

I think I am starting to understand why I've been at this plateu for so long. I dropped a little when I increased my calorie intake 40%, but my nutritionist insisted that I needed 200 grams of carbs daily... My BMI is barely in the normal range and I really want to see that change. It certainly isn't from not exercising or caloric intake. While my nutritionist insists that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie (assuming you aren't eating junk food), I strongly disagree with her on this one. I've suspected for a time that it is time to change something about my diet and this just might be it.

[GLC1968]

Catrin - no, I don't snack anymore. I did when I was paleo before, but I'm sure my need for snacks stemmed from my inability to let go of all the carbs I was eating. I was closer to 150 - 200 back then and even with a lot of running, I was not losing any weight either.

Since I did the Whole30, my carbs hover just below 100 per day and I no longer feel the need to snack at all. I haven't done any long rides (really, except for a few 25 milers) but no, I don't need to 'fuel' specifically for those. I just do whatever exercise I do and then eat when I'm hungry which is normally just at meal times. This past weekend, I added a couple of two-hour kayaking sessions and did not need to increase my calories/intake at all either day. I think that exercise less than 120 minutes, I'd probably be fine without extra fuel unless it was super intense exercise (like a race). We'll see how it goes as I start ramping up my activity going forward!

I just looked up one of my days that I tracked a month or so ago. On zero exercise, I ate 1780 calories, 50% fat, 23% carb and 27% protein. Carbs were 93 g for the day and that included eating sweet potato with dinner. I would say it was close to a typical day if maybe a tad low in quantity/calories. And keep in mind, I am actively losing weight. When I ate that meal, I was 157 lbs. Today I am 147, so even on 1800 calories a day and no exercise, I am losing fat. If you all are active, you NEED to eat more! Eat that avocado and ghee!

(I agree that ghee is awesome. I made my own a month ago and now it's my second choice fat, after bacon fat, for cooking and melted on veggies, it tastes positively decadent).

[Catrin]

I just looked up a recipe for ghee, so it is basically cooked butter that has had the oil strained from it? hmmm, will have to try this. For some reason I thought ghee was sheeps milk butter or something like that and I've been afraid to try it.

I need to start thinking how to approach this test, frankly I think that cutting out the steel-cut oats and bread will pretty much cut my carbs in half. I just need to think about what to replace that with and get my protein/carb/fat balance where I need it to be. I've a long ride at an event on Sept 22, so that should give me enough time to figure this out.

Back to reading. I like that Mark Apple provides a list of shopping ideas to get started. I've really depended on non-fat dairy for close to half of my protein intake - I just realized that non-fat dairy is pretty high in sodium and I've been noting some occasional blood pressure issues...typically I've close to low blood pressure so am pretty sure this is related to sodium intake.

GLC that helps, thanks! As an active woman it really helps to have an idea how this has worked for another active woman. With the new functional training I've added as cross-training my activity level has really ramped up this summer.

[GLC1968]

Ghee is basically the same thing as drawn butter (or clarified butter). It's super easy to make - just melt butter in a pot, skim off the solids using a spoon, and then the remaining beautiful yellow liquid is purely the butter fat (no milk solids). I put mine into half pint ball jars and put them in the fridge. It's REALLY hard, but softens with warmth very, very quickly.

I think that Ghee actually may have some spices in it (the Indian stuff you buy at our local store does) but mine is plain. Oh, and I used pastured butter to make it.