Why do organic plums taste so good?

[GLC1968]

I don't know about Washington, but in Oregon, you won't find dairy at a farmer's market unless it's pasteurized and in that case, you might as well buy it at a local grocery anyway. Farmers are not allowed to sell raw dairy away from the farm where it's produced. I believe there is an exception for raw cheese from a certified dairy, but not for milk.

We do see eggs and different meats regularly at the local farmers markets around here. (and honey and produce and flowers and jams and etc....)

[ccnyc]

In the NYC Greenmarkets farmers can sell cheese made from raw milk, but not the actual raw milk itself. The only milk sold there is pasteurized. Plenty of raw sheep and goats milk cheeses in addition to raw cows milk cheeses.

Lots of fruit growers sell there but I don't think any of it is organic.

Plenty of lamb, chicken, duck, turkey, fish, and grass-fed beef farmers/vendors. Chicken, duck and ostrich eggs. All local. It is a really wonderful Greenmarket.

[Dogmama]

And organic celery?!

I swear celery had no taste when I was a kid.

A coworker turned me on to an organic fruit and veggie delivery service. I am actually eating fruit and vegetables again.

Veronica

Celery is on the dirty dozen list - things that have lots of pesticides. So organic is definitely better.

I always buy organic when it's available. DH had colon cancer and I'm fairly rabid about keeping our diets a clean as possible. I also like the fact that we aren't poisoning the earth.

[Pedal Wench]

Out in the middle of nowhere, colorado, we came across a few apricot trees growing wild on the side of the road. We were dangerously low on water and food (the road was so pretty, we kept going long past where we were supposed to turn around) and the apricots, although tiny, were amazing -sweet, and so flavorful. We gorged, and grabbed a handful to take back with us. So fun!

Edit: the trees were just dropping tons of fruit onto the shoulder, just rotting away, so we didn't feel bad taking a tiny fraction. Hope that was okay.

[OakLeaf]

I believe the milk laws are federal, and I think the rule is people can sell aged cheeses made from raw milk, but not fresh cheeses. There have definitely been USDA raids but I think some localities do some of their own enforcement, too, and it's sort of a matter of doing what they can get away with. I know one dairy that sells all manner of raw milk products - including butter - boldly labeled "Pet food only, not for human consumption." Okay, my dogs loved butter.

Even if you get pasteurized dairy products, other than a couple of Amish country brands, grocery store dairy isn't going to be grass-fed, not even organic grocery store dairy.

[GLC1968]

I believe the milk laws are federal, and I think the rule is people can sell aged cheeses made from raw milk, but not fresh cheeses. There have definitely been USDA raids but I think some localities do some of their own enforcement, too, and it's sort of a matter of doing what they can get away with. I know one dairy that sells all manner of raw milk products - including butter - boldly labeled "Pet food only, not for human consumption." Okay, my dogs loved butter.

Even if you get pasteurized dairy products, other than a couple of Amish country brands, grocery store dairy isn't going to be grass-fed, not even organic grocery store dairy.

Actually, that's not entirely true. States set the laws concerning raw dairy but within the framework of the Fed. I believe the fed gov only regulates commercial operations. So in Oregon, it is perfectly legal to sell raw dairy as long as you abide by the rules (which are pretty funny and put in place to ensure that there is a big difference between your local farmer and a commercial dairy). The laws are definitely enforced here, too. Most states have laws against raw dairy for human consumption though. I know we are kind of special that way. I can sell raw milk and raw milk products (of any type) from my home/farm...but I cannot advertise or transport it. And I am limited in the number of animals I can have on property that are able to lactate (whether or not they are at the moment) which varies by breed.

I buy pasteurized, pastured dairy at my local grocery store every week! It's ridiculously expensive, so you wouldn't find it at a regular grocery store, I'm sure, but this place sells a lot of this type of stuff. I buy pastured butter and heavy cream and you can get whole milk, too. But yeah, it's not raw. I've found some of the same stuff (Organic Valley brand - but it is 'pastured'...not the regular stuff) at various Whole Foods as well.

[Veronica]

I think I've seen Organic Valley at my grocery store too.

Funny, I've never thought about getting pastured dairy. My grandfather raised cattle and it never really occurred to me that they might be eating something not from a pasture. I'm glad I don't drink much milk now!

I didn't get a lemon cucumber; a regular one instead. At least it looks like a regular one.

Veronica

[OakLeaf]

Organic Valley's pasture standards are higher than the minimum and I will buy their products from time to time, but except for one seasonal butter, their dairy products are far from being 100% grass fed...

[Veronica]

I bought some Organic Valley milk today. I don't drink any straight milk so I'll be relying on Thom to tell me if it's different. I do like that I can read about my farmer and that it's someone somewhat local.

Veronica

[GLC1968]

Organic Valley's pasture standards are higher than the minimum and I will buy their products from time to time, but except for one seasonal butter, their dairy products are far from being 100% grass fed...

Is it even possible for a dairy cow to be 100% grass fed? Our goats live on pasture, but we supplement with hay and grain when they are lactating otherwise they don't get enough protein. From the OV site, it sounds like cows lead a similar life?

Honestly, I'm more concerned with how the animal is treated and cared for (ie, no antibiotics, no hormones) when it comes to dairy. I reserve my 100% grass-fed requirement to the meat I eat and the butter I buy (both of which you should only be able to get seasonally anyway).

Oh, and the pastured milk at our store is from a local farm and sold glass returnable bottles...not from OV. It's also not always available, so I guess that makes a lot of sense. I have never bought it, but I like to see that it's an option for people who drink milk.

[OakLeaf]

Is it even possible for a dairy cow to be 100% grass fed? Our goats live on pasture, but we supplement with hay and grain when they are lactating otherwise they don't get enough protein. From the OV site, it sounds like cows lead a similar life?

You know, I wondered about that. We get a couple of different cheeses that are labeled "cows fed 100% grass," but I haven't actually asked the guy at the farmer's market what that means. I personally would count hay as "grass," even though some of it is likely to be alfalfa. Wouldn't alfalfa have enough protein? And especially now with the drought, people are feeding spring hay to their livestock now. It's going to be a rough winter. But I digress.

I'd expect any mineral supplement they need would come from their salt lick and wouldn't technically count as "feed."

The thing that got me about OV is that the cows only need to be on pasture for a third of the year, and even during that third, 70% of their feed can be something else. So, only 10% of their total annual diet (i.e. 30% for a third of the year) needs to be pasture. That doesn't sound like "supplementation" to me.

[GLC1968]

Yeah, alfalfa is definitely higher in protein and would probably work for cows or real dairy farms. We couldn't use it exclusively because we had no way of keeping the non-lactating or non-pregnant does and wethers out of it. It's way too rich for goats that don't have higher calorie needs and can cause trouble (and fatness!). Goats are a little different from cows and sheep anyway. They can't survive on grass alone. They are more like deer and NEED weeds, seeds, grains and other things to supplement grass.

I was thinking about this thread on my drive home last night. I would bet that cheese (and seasonal butter) could be considered 100% grass depending on what time of year the milk is harvested. I mean, the cow might not be on grass 100% all year, but the milk comes from what the cow has been eating recently. After a spring on nothing but grass, the milk would be all 'grass-produced' (yeah, that's not a real term!). It's a little different than grass fed meat where what the animal ate for its whole life matters more.

[Veronica]

But it is better than how cows are handled for "regular" milk. As a society we've gone towards everything quick, cheap and mass produced. It's going to be hard to turn that around. Most people aren't going to want to pay to have animals treated more humanely and to have less "crap" in their food.

I pay $3.39 for as gal. of "regular" 2% milk at my grocery store. OV is $3.99 for a half gal. We can afford the extra $6.00 - $10.00 a week to get something that is more natural. But I bet most Americans would say it's a waste of money or question why it's more expensive.

Veronica

[Owlie]

But it is better than how cows are handled for "regular" milk. As a society we've gone towards everything quick, cheap and mass produced. It's going to be hard to turn that around. Most people aren't going to want to pay to have animals treated more humanely and to have less "crap" in their food.

I pay $3.39 for as gal. of "regular" 2% milk at my grocery store. OV is $3.99 for a half gal. We can afford the extra $6.00 - $10.00 a week to get something that is more natural. But I bet most Americans would say it's a waste of money or question why it's more expensive.

Veronica

Well, I certainly can't afford it. I don't think it's a waste of money if it's important to you, but if I ate only grass-fed/ethically produced/organic food, I don't think I could afford to eat.

[GLC1968]

Well, I certainly can't afford it. I don't think it's a waste of money if it's important to you, but if I ate only grass-fed/ethically produced/organic food, I don't think I could afford to eat.

Yeah, we pay for it because we can, but that certainly hasn't always been the case and I totally get that. In fact, in many ways I feel like it is my duty to pay for it precisely because we are in a situation where it's possible for us. I want the healthier, more humane, local, fresher, better for the environment, whatever stuff for my body, but I also want to support the people who are producing it because I know that not everyone can.

We don't take fancy vacations, wear fancy clothes or even buy bike things much anymore...but we are spending a bloody fortune on food. I consider it an investment in my future health and the future health of the planet. Or...at least that's what I tell myself when I am spending $70 on 6 items at my local grocery.