Obesity and addiction

[lph]

Thank you, limewave, that was insightful.

I'm curious if cycling also helps by controlling your natural appetite? Or do you have to think equally much about eating the right amount? I ask because I know that in inactive periods (illness, injury, exams) my appetite just doesn't work right and i end up eating just because, without really feeling either hungry or full (and getting pretty pudgy in the process). When I exercise a lot I feel very obviously HUNGRY, and then I feel FULL. And I just read a study recently that showed that exercise does measureably improve appetite.. uh, "precision", for lack of a better word.

Do you find that people don't understand the way you relate to food, or do you feel that many people feel the same way?

Feel free not to answer if I'm being too nosy on a sensitive subject.

[limewave]

I'm curious if cycling also helps by controlling your natural appetite? Or do you have to think equally much about eating the right amount?

Yes and no. If I eat the right combination of nutrition during a ride, I find that I am able to maintain a healthy and appropriate diet. But there are times when I am ravishing, usually later in the day or even the next day. Part of that I think has to do more with wanting to satisfy or assuage the fatigue that I'm feeling more than satisfying hunger.

Exercise and cycling helps with increasing endorphins and reducing stress and anxiety. Being in a better mood, feeling strong and healthy does help control my diet. In that sense, yes it does help.

Do you find that people don't understand the way you relate to food, or do you feel that many people feel the same way?

I don't think most people understand.

I feel constantly judged. We just had Easter which meant lots of candy, big meals with families, lots and lots of food. Last night was a pizza party. I made a healthy dinner that I had before the pizza party and opted to not eat pizza--especially after all the indulgences over the weekend. You would not believe the number of people commenting and judging me because I wouldn't eat the pizza. I tried to be discreet about it, but people pay attention to what other people are eating We are very judgmental and concerned about what other people are putting in their bodies--both ways. We judge people for eating the wrong things and then we judge people when opt for a healthier option. It's just one slice of pizza!

[goldfinch]

I feel constantly judged. We just had Easter which meant lots of candy, big meals with families, lots and lots of food. Last night was a pizza party. I made a healthy dinner that I had before the pizza party and opted to not eat pizza--especially after all the indulgences over the weekend. You would not believe the number of people commenting and judging me because I wouldn't eat the pizza. I tried to be discreet about it, but people pay attention to what other people are eating We are very judgmental and concerned about what other people are putting in their bodies--both ways. We judge people for eating the wrong things and then we judge people when opt for a healthier option. It's just one slice of pizza!

Groups of people are tribal. You are not fitting in. My neighbor ladies at my fall and spring home are constantly pushing treats on me.

[Catrin]

...We judge people for eating the wrong things and then we judge people when opt for a healthier option. It's just one slice of pizza!

Wasn't there a study done recently that focused on this? Food is about more to the human mind than simply fuel, it comes wrapped in all different kinds of packages, some of which comes straight from our family/culture.

As a member of a quite diverse Greek Orthodox parish (many of us are not Greek), I am very careful what I eat before attending dinner at a Greek home (or immigrant household in general). It is very much about hospitality and to not partake of the food offered is an insult, I understand this and I am there for the relationships - not the food. Thankfully, there is a lot of healthy choices in Greek/Arabic and Eastern European traditional dishes - and I start out with quite small portions because I know I won't be allowed to leave the table without seconds...

As far as cycling and nutrition is concerned. My diet was actually pretty healthy for the last 5-6 years when I was still 50-70 pounds heavier than now. It was more about my totally sedentary lifestyle and the wrong percentages of fats/carbs/etc. I pay far more attention to what I eat now because in my weight-loss journey I've learned that if I do not then it becomes easier to justify old comfort foods. As someone else mentioned, once that weight is gone, that diligence has to remain to keep it off. Being older and without a thyroid or reproductive system just makes that even more important. I also am prone to low-blood sugar if I am not careful so, yeah, I will always need to be vigilant in both food choices and exercise.

It helps to not have anything unhealthy around to eat, and I rarely have the budget to eat out - which helps

Added: I love what cycling has done to my body (I've lost a LOT of weight since starting 2.5 years ago - most of it in that first year), and my moods. My depression has almost completely disappeared and I am much more positive about me and the world around me. In learning how to fuel for the bike, and reversing diabetes II at the same time, I learned a lot about nutritional choices. Now, if I can just avoid further over-use injuries...

[Bethany1]

Food became a problem when I was first married and we didn't make enough money to really eat. It was feed the kids first and then take care of yourself which pretty much meant I wasn't eating much. Then when we did have food it was eat as much as you can because you don't know when your next meal would be. That was about 14 years ago and the mentality is still here. It's a double edged sword on your physical and mental health.

Later when I was diagnosed with epilepsy and bipolar most of the drugs cause weight gain with Depakote being the worst offender. With the highs/lows of bipolar eating has it's own problems. If you are depressed, you either eat to feel better or don't eat at all. If you are on the manic side, you are too busy to eat and only realize it when it's dinnertime.

Cycling has brought it's own food issues and I get torn on continuing to cycle. If you don't have enough food/calories (with the right food) when you start, you bonk. It's a terribly sick feeling and intensely frightening. When I'm done with the ride, there's this overwhelming desire for food as you've just gone through all that energy. When I ride past the BBQ restaurant, I'm dreaming of ribs, mashed potatoes, salad, and corn on the cob and end up going back with DH to inhale food. I've gained weight instead of losing it. Cycling can be physically and emotionally overwhelming. My entire metabolism has changed and no book goes over cycling for heavy people.

On the other hand my blood pressure is down and I'm gaining some better definition on my body. My back and fibromyalgia can handle the ride and there is a sense of accomplishment once you are done. For the first time in years, I'm outside almost every day.

It helps with the depression/mania even though I still get pretty cranky because of my limitations. It's helped with the anxiety of leaving the house and once I realized that my biggest fear of cycling is being stranded, I've been able to work through it. It's made me more independent and more confident.

I just wish I could manage the intense food cravings after the ride. I think because I'm heavier my body's metabolism after a ride is different than someone who doesn't weigh as much. Every book on cycling/nutrition has numbers for skinny people. The caloric intake for someone who is 150 lbs is totally different for someone who is 220. Obviously the food after the ride needs to be as healthy as the food you eat before a ride.

[marni]

one of the turning points for me was the acceptance of responsibility for my own life along with a realization that whatever I decided to do was going to be for life, and not just to get to a goal. I had a great deal of support from my family at first, but lately since it is just DH and I, he has gotten very slack about his weight and sometimes brings food into the house that I used to like. Fortunately, over 5 years of slow steady dieting and a very regimented training schedule, I have learned to shed my compulsion to feel like I have any control over his actions, and I have learned to be a bit more flexible with my self so that if I slip, I just get right back on the horse.

It is not easy, but I find it much easier to deal with after five years, and the payback is that I am healthy, my % body fat is within the medically normal range, free from bone, muscle,joint and body pain, and have an incredibly healthy heart and disgustingly normal blood pressure ( for a 50 year old although I am 64) according to my Doctor.

Baby steps, baby steps, and try not to feel too smug when you succeed. Down 125 pounds in five years with another 10 or so to go .

marni

[Susan]

Great thread! Great to read your experiences.
I've lost a signigificant amount of weight and went from obese to the upper end of "normal" BMI over the last few years.

The strange thing about it is that it was and still is so easy on the one hand and so hard on the other:
"All I had to do" is make healthy choices and be active. Eating 3 to 4 meals a day, not eating sweets, picking up cycling, running, HIIT.
And the weight came off.

I still have to think about my food choices every day, every meal. I enjoy being active, and I am very active, but it doesn't regulate my appetite. I am always hungry. I could always eat more. If I have open access to food I shouldn't eat, it will end in a binge. In fact, sometimes I can't avoid binging, so eat unreasonable amounts of vegetables and salad so that the binge won't affect my weight. I have to be alert when I go shopping, because what I have at home, I WILL eat. If I am not at home where I have control over my food choices, I often can't stop eating when I should or eating the wrong things.

The strange thing is that the same people who judged me because of my weight before, mostly family members, keep forcing food at me now, even though they know how I struggled. They often say "now that you have lost all that weight, it won't hurt" or "you can eat what you want because you are so active" - which just isn't true. People often don't want to hear the truth (especially people who struggle with their weight themselves often just want to hear about an easy fix). I have learned to throw out food that I shouldn't eat and to get back on the wagon if I fell off.
But like Limewave, I constantly feel just one step away from regaining my weight.

I think it is clearly an addiction. It was significantly easier to stop smoking than to eat right. It's like being addicted to heroine, just that unlike with heroine, you can't just stop eating. You have to constantly keep the balance between nourishing your body and hurting yourself with food.
Food is so much more complicated than just eating when you are hungry. There are so many occasions where it is a social norm to eat and to eat certain things, to a degree that it can be an insult not to eat.
I think to people who don't have the problem, my struggles to manage foodintake will sound obsessive and unhealthy. And while I am fully aware that my relatioship with food is unhealthy, I have to manage it somehow, and obviously much more restrictive than people with a normal relationship with food.

[lph]

I was thinking that one of the most interesting points in this discussion is how not only obese people have a difficult relationship with food. Normal-weight people can be obsessed with food too, and I don't mean this in a judgemental way, just that for some people more than others it is necessary to pay extreme attention to what they eat and how they eat, to maintain a healthy weight. Obesity just makes it more visible to others.

It's not that I'm incapable of binging, and I do need to keep up certain good habits to eat well over time, but once I have those habits I do "just... eat". If I eat something out of the norm like a very rich restaurant meal it usually affects my appetite, I might feel queasy or not want to eat for a long time, it doesn't trigger a desire for a lot more of the same type of food and I don't need to actively choose to eat less the following day. But this is very closely tied to activity and exercise for me.

I wish there was a lot more research done on appetite. Hunger is a very strong feeling, and almost impossible to ignore. Now that most of us have unlimited access to food we need to know a lot more about how to balance our natural desire to eat while it's there with the more subtle signals of "enough".

[goldfinch]

I wish there was a lot more research done on appetite. Hunger is a very strong feeling, and almost impossible to ignore. Now that most of us have unlimited access to food we need to know a lot more about how to balance our natural desire to eat while it's there with the more subtle signals of "enough".

There is quite a bit of research. As a formerly obese person I especially was interested in how hormones which regulate appetite go way out of whack when you lose weight, with not enough of the hormone which suppresses appetite and too much of the hormone which increases appetite. Then there is the effect of behavior conditioning on appetite. If you eat in certain circumstances when that circumstance occurs you might feel hungry. Food and the triggers that stimulate you to eat both elevate dopamine levels in the reward areas of the brain. If you have reduced dopaminergic activity in the brain you may overeat to compensate. A genetic deficiency in this brain chemical may very well drive you to addictive behavior from overeating to drug addiction and even gambling. Interestingly, this is often reversed in gastric bypass patients. Bypass is a far more effective way to lose weight and keep it off than a diet, as drastic as it is.

Certain types of food can drive the appetite up, specifically, sweets and starches. Insulin is important in regulation of appetite.

We know a lot about appetite, we just don't know enough about how to deal with it. Right now, bypass may be the best bet for the obese, risks and all. There are some promising avenues of research that might lead to better solutions. Yes, there even may be a pill someday. There are some things one can experiment with to see if it helps, such as:

--knowing the triggers which stimulate you to eat and break that connection.
--find new sources of pleasure and reward. Exercise may fall in this category. Good social networks of like minded people certainly are sources of pleasure and reward.
--eat more protein, less carbs
--High dose fish oil? Maybe increases dopamine and dopamine receptors

My hunch for me is that I am dopamine deficient. I struggle with controlling eating. I also struggle with controlling my shopping. I have to have a rigid set of rules about my shopping. For example, I keep a separate credit card for shopping and pay that card from a separate bank account. I fund that account twice a year in a pre-determined amount. That is all I can spend on pleasure shopping.

[SadieKate]

I was thinking that one of the most interesting points in this discussion is how not only obese people have a difficult relationship with food. Normal-weight people can be obsessed with food too, and I don't mean this in a judgemental way, just that for some people more than others it is necessary to pay extreme attention to what they eat and how they eat, to maintain a healthy weight. Obesity just makes it more visible to others.

This is exactly what I was talking about. You just can't know what other's internal struggles are. And this goes for any goal each of us might have.