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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    Something more new runners need to hear and follow is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "don't overthink things."

    Yeah, I'm not a fan of overly bulky running shoes, but I'm also not sure that the barefoot trend is any better when we are a culture of people who are shod the vast majority of our waking hours--like most things, moderation is key. People who try to completely switch to barefoot running without any gradual transition often end up very injured. And attempting to change one's form without any real reason for doing so is generally unwise, as well. Kids run all over the place and never give any thought to whether or not they have "perfect form." You'll also see elites who are heel strikers mixed in with the midfoot and forefoot strikers. Messing with one's natural form can be a recipe for owies!

    I did have to work a little on my form maybe 6 months after I started running, as I was over-striding and starting to have issues with my right hip flexor. I don't have long legs and attempting to make myself have a long stride was counterproductive. I essentially had to stop trying to have a long-striding form that wasn't natural for my body. If the Chi/Pose methods work for people it's because they help runners to stop trying to go faster by taking longer steps, which to a new runner may seem like the way to get faster, but often ends up the way to get injured faster. Since bulky-heeled shoes cushion over-striding foot plants, people want to blame shoes for causing their injury woes. More minimal shoes don't cushion the heels as much, so they make overstriding uncomfortable. It is possible to run without overstriding in a bulkier shoe...but why wear the shoe if the bulk isn't necessary, though.

    I'm personally a fan of what typically falls into the lightweight performance trainer category -- sort of midway between a barefoot shoe and a bulkier trainer. I still need my Superfeet insoles, though. I wear them in my cycling shoes, as well. Within a week of trying to go sans Superfeet I will invariably feel it in my right knee.
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by zoom-zoom View Post
    Something more new runners need to hear and follow is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "don't overthink things."
    Yes.

    Part of what I love about what running - and what's pulled me back in after a 4 year break - is the discipline. I have to be disciplined about going for my runs, about pushing when I need to push, about eating well and drinking enough water throughout the day to run well. But, I also need to be disciplined about *not* running too much/too often/too hard and not overthinking it. These last two are more difficult than the other things.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Uncanny Valley
    Posts
    14,498
    Good article (actually a collection of opinions): http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...?newsfeed=true
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    575
    Thanks for the great input everyone. I'm seeing two themes here. One is that many of you worked through lots of problems to become runners and that I shouldn't give up too soon. The other theme is that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    I should point out that while I never considered my tendency to toe out as being "broken", a physical therapist that I worked with to rehab my broken ankle led me to believe that it was a problem. The therapist was constantly after me to straighten out my foot and keep my knee over my toe to protect my knee during the exercises. This idea was reinforced when I read Chi Running. I thought that straightening my foot while I ran would protect my knee. It sure didn't turn out that way, (although the pain isn't so much in my knee but right below it). I'm just gonna go back to my natural way of moving after this experience.

    Oakleaf, I haven't read the link yet since I wanted to acknowledge everyone's responses before it got too late. Looks interesting, though.

    I'm off to ice my leg. Now I'm looking forward to trying to run again. I don't love it yet but I'm open to the possibility.
    LORI
    Pivot Mach 4 / WTB
    Updated Vintage Terry Symmetry / Bontrager InForm RL WSD

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    Quote Originally Posted by Artista View Post
    I should point out that while I never considered my tendency to toe out as being "broken", a physical therapist that I worked with to rehab my broken ankle led me to believe that it was a problem. The therapist was constantly after me to straighten out my foot and keep my knee over my toe to protect my knee during the exercises.
    Sounds like trying to drum up business, IMO. Yeah, if you're doing lunges or squats you want to concentrate on your form, but trying to change your natural form too much while running is recipe for disaster. It's like trying to force your foot into a degree of rotation on the pedal that doesn't feel good. some people's toes point quite straight ahead, while others are more comfortable with a bit of toe-in or toe-out. I know that if I rotate my cleats even a degree too far one direction or the other and have pedals without a little bit of float that my knees and hips and glutes feel it almost immediately.

    If your toeing-out had never caused issues before I really have to wonder why a PT would encourage you to change. Is the PT a runner, themselves?
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    575
    Quote Originally Posted by zoom-zoom View Post
    Sounds like trying to drum up business, IMO.
    The therapist is a runner and cyclist but I never discussed running with him. His reminders to point my foot forward were concentrated on walking in his clinic and doing a ton of backwards and lateral exercises like step-ups, monster walks, and walking backwards against tension. His reminders, and the exercises that he gave me, did seem to influence my foot to naturally point straighter ahead during easy activities like walking on flat ground. My foot still wants to point out when my leg is under stress, like walking uphill, running, and doing lunges and squats. My knee never complains about my foot pointing out a bit but it sometimes feels stressed when I try to bring my foot in. This makes me wonder if my tendency to toe out is a combination of anatomical alignment, as Wahine suggested, and muscle imbalances that I may have developed over the years. Regardless of the cause, I've decided to embrace the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach.

    ETA: The point I didn't get to in this post is that the therapist never suggested that I try to correct my foot while running. That hairbrained idea was totally mine.
    Last edited by Artista; 02-21-2012 at 07:10 AM.
    LORI
    Pivot Mach 4 / WTB
    Updated Vintage Terry Symmetry / Bontrager InForm RL WSD

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Traveling Nomad
    Posts
    6,763
    Artista,

    I will chime in here because I am also not a natural runner, never ran in high school (avoided all sports, in fact). I started jogging just a bit in college, but it was only done to lose weight, not because I wanted to be a "runner". I am sure my longest run then was two miles.

    I never ran again until a few years ago (in my late 40s), and it is not something that came easily to me either. I have only done a few runs of five miles in my entire lifetime. For the past couple of years, I mostly ran on the treadmill at the gym at work 2-3x a week, 3-3.5 miles was my usual, at a slowish pace.

    We moved to Belize in August, and I realized I wouldn't be able to do the long road rides that were my fitness mainstay in North Carolina. We do have bikes, but they're beach cruisers for the sandy roads and beaches here, and there are very few paved roads where we live.

    So I started up running again. It was intensely hot when I started, back in September, and I started with very short, slow runs. At times I could barely make 1.5 to 2 miles, because it was so hot and sunny, even very early in the morning. I felt like my heart was going to fly right out of my chest. I was not acclimated to the heat/humidity at all, even after living in NC. But I made a habit of running three mornings a week, and as of today, finally have hit the five mile mark again! And I did my first-ever 5K back in November. I wasn't fast (30:28 was my time), but I finished, and I was pretty proud of that!

    I read Chi Running and several of John Bingham's running books (http://www.amazon.com/John-Bingham/e/B001ILIFC0) and all were super helpful. I don't push myself to go too fast or too far, and I have managed to completely avoid injury despite never having a formal shoe fitting, gait analysis, or coach. I do feel fortunate for that, especially since all of these things are probably near about impossible to find where I live now.

    I guess the purpose of my post is just to encourage you not to give up. Just last week, I was berating myself for not being a real runner, whatever that is, as I just barely pushed out a 3.75-mile run. But this morning I did 5.1 with ease, and I realized that the difference was the weather (sun/heat last week vs. overcast/cool today). Today I felt like a runner!

    Running is definitely not easy -- if it were, everyone would do it. But if you stick with it, don't try to do too much too soon, there's a good chance you'll eventually come to enjoy it. I know I felt on top of the world today both on and after my run, and it's made me all the more enthusiastic and itchy for more. So, like cycling, running really can get under your skin, as GLC's post also illustrated. It can become fun and something you look forward to.

    Good luck!
    Emily

    2011 Jamis Dakar XC "Toto" - Selle Italia Ldy Gel Flow
    2007 Trek Pilot 5.0 WSD "Gloria" - Selle Italia Diva Gel Flow
    2004 Bike Friday Petite Pocket Crusoe - Selle Italia Diva Gel Flow

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    4,632
    Quote Originally Posted by zoom-zoom View Post
    Something more new runners need to hear and follow is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "don't overthink things."
    Thanks for validating my thoughts on the matter. I've been trying to add a little running to my routine (it' s a lot easier to run around the neighborhood than kitting up for a ride when I'm crunched for time but the weather's too nice for being inside). It's easy to get sucked in to "I should be doing X, Y and Z," yet at the same time, I think "This is what my body wants to do. It hasn't failed me quite yet." I have weird feet and knees. I guess they know what they want, and woe betide me if I argue!

    And the short steps don't work well for me. I'm all legs!
    At least I don't leave slime trails.
    http://wholecog.wordpress.com/

    2009 Giant Avail 3 |Specialized Jett 143

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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    364
    Two contrasting thoughts on this topic:

    It took me ages to be ale to run and enjoy it. To run a whole 3 mile round through the neighbourhood was a major achievement for me and took some month of practising.
    There was a point though, where running started to feel good. When I had this break-through after some month, I started to really enjoy running and was able to do more miles.
    I like the versatility of running, that you can run anywhere with minimal equipment. It's a really good workout when you can't do anything else.


    On the other hand, of all the different workouts I do, running seems to be the most "dangerous", where I seem to be most prone to injury. I bike and swim, do circle training, body weight exercises and a little bit of weight lifting and seldom experience problems. But I hurt myself in various ways when running (this is while striving for good form). So even if I like running, I try to limit my running to small amounts. Maybe I am really just not made for running.

 

 

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