paleo diet question

[Veronica]

I have to admit I have a hard time with the name "paleo". I wish they had come up with something that fit the concept a little bit better.

My question...

Why is beef ok and butter, but not cow's milk? Did my paleo ancestors really churn butter and then clarify it?

Veronica

[GLC1968]

No, they definitely did not. I seriously doubt a woolly mammoth would give up milk without killing the milk-maid in the process!

The beef fat is really only OK if it comes from a grass-fed source. In that case, the fat profile is healthier for you (and consequently, closer to a wild animal). Today's feed-lot beef is not OK, which is why, in those cases, leaner cuts are recommended. Feeding cattle on mostly corn (and then pumping them full of antibiotics to keep them alive) creates a very unhealthy ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 fats leading to a whole host of problems in both the cattle and in the humans who consume it.

I try to be realistic - if I eat a fatty cut, I only do it from grass-fed sources (which are luckily easy to find for me...but expensive). If I'm eating out, for example, then I'll stick to leaner cuts or choose some other type of meat.

Butter is only OK because once you clarify it, the only thing left is the fat. If the fat comes from a pastured source, then again, the fat profile is correct and therefore not really any different from the fat off the animal itself. The rest of the dairy makeup is not as easy to digest, so it should be avoided.

Personally, we still eat raw dairy. We use the raw goats milk from our goats and I do buy raw milk cheeses on occasion. The general belief is that the good bacteria and microbes in the raw milk make it easier to digest (which we know is true based on how my lactose intolerant husband handles raw products compared to commercial dairy). This is a personal choice on our part though as most paleo proponents would shun all dairy.

I also have a hard time with all the coconut products promoted on the diet. I find the coconut craze amongst strict paleo dieters to be kind of hypocritical, actually. I do use some coconut products, but I try to limit them except for occasional treats. Somehow, raw goats milk seems more 'natural' to me than coconut milk that you make in a blender with hot water and coconut meat...but what do I know?

The basic idea behind the diet (or the way I look at it) is to remove ALL potential problem foods (grains, dairy, legumes including soy, sugar, etc) for 4 - 6 weeks and then add them back in, one at at time, to find what works for YOU. Everyone is different, so everyone has to find what is optimal for their bodies. Personally, I'm ok with raw dairy but my body does not like coconut flour or brown rice. I think I can digest gluten well enough, but it triggers crazy cravings and food obsession for me...so I avoid it. Sugar too (for the same reasons). What I haven't yet tried are legumes - I'll give those a shot in January and see how I do.

[TsPoet]

GLC' answer was dietetic, not "paleo".
The Paleo answer is, butter isn't. A true, strict paleo diet doesn't allow butter. Then again, a true strict paleo diet doesn't allow cooking.
My SO is big into the paleo, due to him I've read a couple of books on it, and the "science" is horribly stupid. The very first contention is that we are >9x% genetically identical to cavemen. Well, we are >97% genetically identical to mice and any other mammal you can think of, so forget it. Also, many studies are now showing that dogs aren't domesticated wolves (I really didn't just change topics, I think the dog=wolf argument is more valid than the modern human=caveman argument).
The paleo people I know all allow butter, especially if it's home made. Many also allow beer, but not oats (my SO doesn't, too his credit).
The addition of butter comes from the expansion of the "paleo" concept to "neolithic" times - when hunter/gatherers started switching to a more agricultural-like lifestyle (but wasn't there quite yet).
The good thing about the paleo diet really is the low carbness of it (I just made up a word, I'm so proud). Some strict paleo folks I know don't allow tomatoes as having too many carbs (~5 g/whole medium tomato), or green beans, or a number of veggies.
Due to my SO, I've gone somewhat paleo, but I refuse to eat all of the fat that's "allowed", including butter, and I eat fruit and any type of veggie I want, they can all stuff their paleo rules.

[Veronica]

Well I'm excited to try some of the recipes in Paleo Comfort Foods book, just to add some variety to my cooking. But the list of things to have in your kitchen seemed a bit odd, hence my question.

They really should have called it The Avoid All the Crap That May Give You Health Problems diet. I suppose that's not as catchy.

Have you made the egg muffins yet? It says they can be frozen, but doesn't say how to reheat them.

Veronica

On another note - got my tri bible yesterday. I'm on chapter 4. It makes so much more sense to me now!

[GLC1968]

GLC' answer was dietetic, not "paleo".
The Paleo answer is, butter isn't. A true, strict paleo diet doesn't allow butter. Then again, a true strict paleo diet doesn't allow cooking.
My SO is big into the paleo, due to him I've read a couple of books on it, and the "science" is horribly stupid. The very first contention is that we are >9x% genetically identical to cavemen. Well, we are >97% genetically identical to mice and any other mammal you can think of, so forget it. Also, many studies are now showing that dogs aren't domesticated wolves (I really didn't just change topics, I think the dog=wolf argument is more valid than the modern human=caveman argument).
The paleo people I know all allow butter, especially if it's home made. Many also allow beer, but not oats (my SO doesn't, too his credit).
The addition of butter comes from the expansion of the "paleo" concept to "neolithic" times - when hunter/gatherers started switching to a more agricultural-like lifestyle (but wasn't there quite yet).
The good thing about the paleo diet really is the low carbness of it (I just made up a word, I'm so proud). Some strict paleo folks I know don't allow tomatoes as having too many carbs (~5 g/whole medium tomato), or green beans, or a number of veggies.
Due to my SO, I've gone somewhat paleo, but I refuse to eat all of the fat that's "allowed", including butter, and I eat fruit and any type of veggie I want, they can all stuff their paleo rules.

Wow, you know some crazy paleo people! How would beer ever be ok? That's grain based!

The info I gave is paraphrased from the recent literature on it predominantly by Robb Wolf and originally Loren Cordain. I don't know that either of them really want to emulate what our paleolithic ancestors ate. Their take is that we take what they ate as a guide or starting point, and then update it to be the healthiest we can be using modern food availability and recent research. Personally, I get the idea of trying to be as healthy as possible. I don't get the idea of eating like a cavemen just because we are descendant from cavemen. That argument does not hold water with me at all.

Of course, eating food raw (including meat) would be more accurate, but there is something to be said for having a diet that is enjoyable and sustainable (from a 'eat this way for life' perspective). No diet is worth diddly if one can't stick to it for the long term, right?

V - There are quite a number of good cookbooks recently released. Some are stricter than others so you have to read ingredients and take from them what works best for you. I have the Paleo Comfort Foods and I've made a few things from it, all but one of which have been really good. I haven't tried any of the breakfast type foods though. The chili from that book is excellent, by the way.

My tri book doesn't arrive until tomorrow, but I bet I have it totally read by Tuesday!

[TsPoet]

Of all of my SO's books, this is my favorite. I've liked everything he's made out of it so far (but would make some changes, like adding green chili or something to the Scotch Eggs).

http://www.amazon.com/Well-Fed-Paleo...5184036&sr=1-1


GLC - yeah, I guess I couldn't get past the first page of ALL of the books. I think most people, like you, are more reasonable and read over the pseudo science BS and get to the nutritional 'value' of the diet. I just couldn't do that because I get stuck that way.
Also, most of my "paleo" friends are also crossfitters, so the beer and some of it comes from more of a crossfit mentality than a paleo mentality.

[lph]

I admit I've just read fleetingly about it, but I thought the idea was that the diet humans had existed on for the longest time should be the most healthy, because that's the diet our bodies have had most time to evolve and adapt to. Or have I got it wrong?

I have a few quibbles with this, because evolution doesn't necessarily favour the best possible state of health, it just weeds out the worst cases. So as long as you stayed healthy enough long enough to have as many kids as the Joneses, fat or skinny, your genes were in the running, so to speak

Testing it out gradually and updating it with modern knowledge sounds smart. I like Veronicas name for it!

[GLC1968]

Ah, those pesky crossfitters! They really have done a number on the things they embrace (first the zone diet, now paleo) - it's that totally 'gung-ho' attitude of theirs! (not that there is anything wrong with that, but everyone must consider the source)

Well Fed looks really good. I got my copy a couple of weeks ago, but haven't cooked from it yet. It is by far the best of the books I have in terms of usability in that it shows suggestions for additions/alterations, it shows quantities, the descriptions are great, etc. I also really like Make it Paleo - particularly for the 'treats' but so far, we've liked everything we've tried from it. I have also had good luck with Everyday Paleo for the recipes (I didn't even read the rest of the book!) but the food photography isn't great so it's not as enticing of a book. Every single recipe we've tried (even the ones I was unsure about) turned out delicious though.

lph - yeah, that's basically it. The idea is that for ~2.5 million years, early humans ate like this. It's only been in the last ~10,000 years that agriculture has evolved and in terms of time for a species to adapt, 10K years is only a drop in the bucket. Therefore, we are still mostly adapted to eat like the paleolithic people ate. While I'm OK with that as a starting point, it is important to take modern science (sometimes with a grain of salt!) and common sense in today's world into consideration. I mean, half of the plant life and almost all the animal life now on the planet is totally different from what it was then...so we have to be realistic about it.

V - I like your name, too! In fact, if you do eat this way and end up having conversations with people about it, it tends to go MUCH smoother if you don't use the word paleo at all. "Paleo" is like 'Atkins' or "low carb" in that it generates a lot of preconceived notions in people's heads - some right and some wrong.

[GLC1968]

By the way, I'm teasing about the crossfitters. I have a lot of good friends in real life who are very into crossfit, so I hold no malice towards them! They are just a very enthusiastic group and when they embrace something, they tend to go whole hog on it. I'm happy they have embraced Paleo as it has really brought it into the forefront and made most of these awesome new cookbooks come to light!

[spindizzy]

They really should have called it The Avoid All the Crap That May Give You Health Problems diet.

Exactly!

I had trouble losing my last 7-10 lbs. Adopted the basic tenets of this eating plan. Dropped the weight. Felt fantastic. And after about 90% of my workouts, I had no to minimal muscle pain. I had the best year of competition in my life.

I basically allow little to no processed food. Enjoy an alcoholic beverage now and then and the ocassional treat. As with all things, you need to find what works for you.

As for CrossFit - love it but the metcon workouts totally killed my 2010 year. When I get back to it (after the broken ankle heals) my goal is to be the last one completing the WOD. And I will wear my HRM to ensure I stay aerobic!

[TsPoet]

By the way, I'm teasing about the crossfitters. I have a lot of good friends in real life who are very into crossfit, so I hold no malice towards them! They are just a very enthusiastic group and when they embrace something, they tend to go whole hog on it. I'm happy they have embraced Paleo as it has really brought it into the forefront and made most of these awesome new cookbooks come to light!

Too late, now I'm not talking to you
I do crossfit inconsistently. I got kicked out of the first CF gym I went to - kicked out! why, because I didn't grunt, yell, and act like a He-woman. The CF gym I switched to is oddly mellow for a CF gym. I have a love/hate relationship with both CF and Paleo. CF is too cultish, doesn't think enough (about things like form), and just too macho for me. I'm too old and fat and I think could really hurt myself doing CF.
Some paleo is good, and I'm trying to do more of it, but not going whole-hog.

[westtexas]

Supposedly you are to use Ghee instead of butter. I use butter, but sparingly. I follow the diet pretty closely. I think the thing that makes it work is the low carbs plus the fat - you feel full and happy all day even without the quick fix sugar rush from the carbs. I have to be really careful when I cycle because if I start eating carbs again, it can be hard for me to stop. Thank goodness the holidays are almost over.

I started eating this way though because I found out I have celiac disease and a friend introduced me to it. Now he's trying to get me to go completely raw... and I just don't think I have the time or energy for that. This works for me. I've never felt so good in my life.

And while the dogs are not wolves (and thus humans are not cavepeople) argument is totally valid - as a side point, they have also found that high protein diets in dogs (and cats especially) with low carbs and no grains are better for them too. Especially seniors - they used to feed protein/fat restricted diets to seniors but lo and behold now we have found that they actually need more protein and fat to maintain muscle tone and brain function.

I just want to be as healthy as I can for as long as I can with as few drugs in my system as possible.

[goldfinch]

Supposedly you are to use Ghee instead of butter. I use butter, but sparingly. I follow the diet pretty closely. I think the thing that makes it work is the low carbs plus the fat - you feel full and happy all day even without the quick fix sugar rush from the carbs. I have to be really careful when I cycle because if I start eating carbs again, it can be hard for me to stop. Thank goodness the holidays are almost over.

I started eating this way though because I found out I have celiac disease and a friend introduced me to it. Now he's trying to get me to go completely raw... and I just don't think I have the time or energy for that. This works for me. I've never felt so good in my life.

And while the dogs are not wolves (and thus humans are not cavepeople) argument is totally valid - as a side point, they have also found that high protein diets in dogs (and cats especially) with low carbs and no grains are better for them too. Especially seniors - they used to feed protein/fat restricted diets to seniors but lo and behold now we have found that they actually need more protein and fat to maintain muscle tone and brain function.

I just want to be as healthy as I can for as long as I can with as few drugs in my system as possible.

Interesting about the dogs. My elderly dog has an irritable bowel and I worry about her getting enough protein on the bulky diet that she seems to need.

[GLC1968]

About the dogs...two months after we started eating paleo, we switched our dogs to a grain-free food. We had already switched to a high end food, so the grain-free version was only a slight step up in terms of cost for us. It's expensive, but the dogs are so clearly thriving on it that we feel it is worth it.

Both dogs have lost weight without any need to restrict their eating. They LOVE the food and gobble it up even near the end of the bag where that wasn't the case before. And the part that is truly amazing to me is that our oldest dog (who is only 7, so not really OLD) has had hip problems his whole life and he has recently started to improve. We considered surgery about 5 years ago, but decided to try glucosamine for a bit instead. It helped him, he didn't seem to be in pain and he got around ok so we kept up with it. Since he's been paleo? No need for the supplements anymore! He's even MORE active now without the pills. I really think it's the diet (and partially, the weight loss). He appears so incredibly healthy and vibrant now. We've even transitioned our new puppy to the puppy version of the food too.

[Veronica]

Our kitties went paleo three years ago because Tucker was a fat one year old with no energy. He's still a bit tubby, but has LOTS of energy!

Veronica