Cracked frame(?)

[ny biker]

Update: I'm still waiting to hear from Trek. I've spoken to the guy at the LBS and he was hoping to hear from them today.

Meanwhile, there is this article on repairing damaged carbon frames and components from velonews.com, which discusses various companies in the US, UK and Australia that do repairs.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...rames_196178/1

I finally managed to get out and ride the mountain bike yesterday. I took it to ride on the canal towpath last weekend (at Great Falls, Maryland), but discovered a big spot on the side of the rear tire that looked like massive failure was imminent. So I put the bike back in the car and spent a few hours hiking instead.

A couple of days later I went to the LBS and got new tires. They're designated "light trail," for use on easy dry single track, fireroads, and even pavement, but are not good for technical single track because they're not very knobby. I figured they would work for my current situation. So I put the new tires on the wheels along with new tubes, and the next day found that one of them had gone flat due to a defective valve. Good thing I had just bought some additional spare tubes.

After all this, I figured my best bet would be to ride on the paved trail near the LBS, so that I would be able to quickly6 resolve any additonal mechanical issues that might crop up. So that's what I did yesterday. I was also curious to see how fast the light trail tires could go on pavement. Pretty fast, as it turned out -- I averaged 14 mph over 36 miles, which is not much slower than my road bike.

The trail I rode yesterday (WOD) has a dirt path running parallel to much of it. I think it will make a nice change of pace to ride the mountain bike on it, especially in colder weather when I won't be doing such long rides. And I would like to get back to the towpath.

Still, I really would like to get an answer from Trek.

[bluebug32]

Interesting points, Seajay. I wish you could be a guest speaker at our weekly ride where we tend to do lots of dirt roads. There's lots of freaking out about causing damage to carbon frames.

[redrhodie]

I was thinking about this thread the other day. I was in my lbs as they received 2 frames repaired by Calfee. I took a really close look, and I could not see any evidence of the cracks, or the repairs. I also saw the "before" pics of the damage, which looked pretty bad. They looked perfect, as good as new. They were both Specialized frames. I was impressed. Just thought you'd like to know, if you end up going that route, they seem to do great work.

[Seajay]

RR Yes, Craig Calfee has been doing the carbon thing a long time. I think the early Tetra frames were late 80's. Smart to get into carbon frame repair but his Tretra Pro and DragonFly frames are well worth considering if looking for a new bike. He does excellent work. No, I don't work for him.

BlueBug. The clear tape that is used for protecting cars and boats works well on bike frames on underside of tubes. It makes a nice little barrier if people are concerned about rock chips on dirt roads. It's basically the same product used on "invisible car bras" I think its called Vantage by 3M.

[zoom-zoom]

I hope they will replace your frame. My hubby had a Specialized Roubaix that developed a crack where the top tube meets the seat post tube when it was only 3-4 years old. They shipped him a comparable frame and fork within a really short time. He kept his components.

[bluebug32]

BlueBug. The clear tape that is used for protecting cars and boats works well on bike frames on underside of tubes. It makes a nice little barrier if people are concerned about rock chips on dirt roads. It's basically the same product used on "invisible car bras" I think its called Vantage by 3M.

I just have a small paint chip right now. Is it a problem to leave it uncovered? Any chance of it getting larger?

[ny biker]

Well, some progress but not great. Trek says it's definitely cracked, and they need to cut the top tube off to determine if it's from an impact or not. The LBS manager is getting the impression that at this point they think the cause was an impact, and it looks like it won't be covered under warranty. They asked him for more information, and he told them I don't race, ride recreationally, have not crashed, etc.

Anyway, I can tell them right now to stop, and have the bike sent to Calfee for a repair. The LBS manager estimates the cost for them to repair it (with repainting) would be about $400. A new frame would be > $1000 after the discount.

If I authorize them to cut the top tube and they decide the cause was an impact, then the repair cost would be more, if it's repairable at all, since the whole tube will have been cut off.

I need to call him back with an answer.

[zoom-zoom]

Geez, that is really crappy. Specialized could have used my hubby's weight to deny frame replacement (he's generally 225-250#...6'2" guy who looks more like a football player/decathlete than a cyclist), but they didn't give him any crap. Certainly would make me think twice about a Trek/Gary Fisher in the future.

[Jo-n-NY]

Same response from Trek for a person in our bike club. His bike is only 13 months old. I got really angry when they told him they wanted to cut the top tube. I think has changed with the way they are processing these warrenty claims. I wouldn't want the bike after the cut it.

[ny biker]

Looking at the Calfee website (http://calfeedesign.com/repair), I think they could repair it even with the top tube cut, though I'm sure that would increase the cost of the repair. Their repairs have a 10-year warranty.

I'm going to call the bike shop with more questions and to get a full picture of the total costs involved, including costs to strip the components if I send it to Calfee and the cost to rebuild the repaired/new frame.

I would also like to try to find out what kind of impact Trek thinks caused the crack. It runs along the length of the top tube. I'm wondering if this could be caused while riding, such as by hitting a pothole, or if it's something that would be caused by an object striking the frame.

[ny biker]

Well alrighty then. I decided to go ahead and have Calfee make the repair, without getting a final warranty answer from Trek.

I'll go through all the details, in case it helps anyone else in a similar situation.

First, here is an interesting article on carbon care, from the LBS website.

http://thebikelane.com/articles/carb...care-pg699.htm

I confirmed with the manager that my frame was not damaged by the handlebar turning too fast and smashing into the top tube (based on the location of the crack).

So. Whether I get the frame repaired or get a new one, there would be a labor cost to rebuild it afterwards, which would be about $50-75.

However, if I got a new frame (whether covered under warranty or not), there would be some incompatibility with my current components due to differences between the 2010 Madone (my bike) and the newer frames. I don't remember them all, but for example the seat tube is different and the way the front derailleur attaches to the frame has changed. So I'd be looking at a couple of hundred dollars cost for components to work with the new frame.

If the frame is not covered under warranty, it would cost more than $1000 for a new one, after the discount from Trek's replacement program.

Looking at the information on Calfee's website and the size of the crack, the LBS manager estimated it would cost $400 to repair, including painting the repaired area.

If I have to buy a new frame, a conservative estimate of the cost would be 3x the cost of that repair ($1000 plus some new components).

If I have Trek cut the top tube, and then I decide to have the frame repaired, I expect the cost of the repair to be $600 at least, maybe more.

If Trek cuts the top tube, decides the crack was caused by a defect, and sends me a new frame, I still have to pay a couple hundred dollars for new components.

So, although part of me really wants a final decision from Trek regarding defect vs. damage caused by me, I don't want to risk the higher cost of having to pay for a new frame, or even repairing the frame after Trek cuts it. And I don't want to have to get any new components. Therefore I told them to have Trek ship the bike back to the LBS, where they will remove everything from the frame and send it to Calfee for repairs.

Of course it's possible that Calfee will say the repair will cost more than we're expecting, but based on the information in that Velonews article I am optimistic that our guesstimate is accurate.

Calfee says 3 weeks for the repair, plus it will take time to ship there and back, so I think I'm looking at 5-6 weeks from now before I see my bike again.

The only good thing about this is that it didn't happen during the spring or summer.

[redrhodie]

Wow, it sounds like Trek has discovered a huge loophole in their warranty. I'm sure most people would do what you're doing, to avoid a more costly option. I guess the warranty is always at their discretion, but this makes it even more expensive for you should they rule against you. That really sucks.

One of the 2 Specialized frames I mentioned above was repainted without the decals, and it looked better. It was also cheaper. You should consider that, because why would you want to display their logo when they've not honored their warranty?

Well, I really hope you get your bike back soon, and it's as good as it was. You seem to be handling this very well.

[Blueberry]

Thanks for posting your experience.

That really stinks. I have not been a carbon person (for a lot of reasons), but I'm now starting to consider a tri bike in a few years (and once I feel like I've earned it). It will likely be carbon. I can guarantee it won't be Trek. That is not IMO an appropriate way to treat a customer (cause more damage to see if they will cover it). I would love to know what percent they actually decide to warranty....

FWIW I think you're making a wise decision. However, I hope that your LBS will share your dissatisfaction with trek and steer their customers towards other lines.

[TsPoet]

FWIW I think you're making a wise decision. However, I hope that your LBS will share your dissatisfaction with trek and steer their customers towards other lines.

I've been following this thread out of curiosity and I agree, I'd love to have people know about this, and I'd like Trek to know that people know.

Calfee will do a fabulous job, though.

[zoom-zoom]

I've been following this thread out of curiosity and I agree, I'd love to have people know about this, and I'd like Trek to know that people know.

Perhaps someone should direct them to this thread...

As for new graphics on the repainted frame, I would definitely not have Trek's branding associated with it in any positive fashion. They've not done right by you or other cyclists, from the sound of things.