Is it the Indians or the arrows (new bikes vs. old bikes)?

[redrhodie]

Thanks everybody for the replies! I guess I just needed reaffirmation of what I already knew. We are about the same size & I tried suggesting we switch bikes for a day, but she made an excuse that it wouldn't make any difference! I didn't feel like arguing with her. I didn't know about changing my wheel set out though, thanks for the advice. When you have to struggle with your ego that much on a ride, sometimes it makes me not want to deal with it, but I also realize that's part of the zen that comes from riding & ironically that's exactly why I do it. I have nothing against pushing myself to become stronger, just sometimes it can be demoralizing & I start to question "is this fun?"

She sounds like a piece of work. I recommend riding alone at least some of the time. It is more Zen; easier to get and stay in your zone. As soon as you ask the question "is this fun" the answer is already "no", because when it is fun, you're not thinking about it. Riding your bike shouldn't be demoralizing, because every ride, you're getting more fit, stronger, faster, healthier. That should be great for your morale! So, it seems the problem is not the bike, or the rider, it's the partner, IMO.

[Reesha]

She sounds like a piece of work. I recommend riding alone at least some of the time. It is more Zen; easier to get and stay in your zone. As soon as you ask the question "is this fun" the answer is already "no", because when it is fun, you're not thinking about it. Riding your bike shouldn't be demoralizing, because every ride, you're getting more fit, stronger, faster, healthier. That should be great for your morale! So, it seems the problem is not the bike, or the rider, it's the partner, IMO.

Definitely agree with this! I say take a break from riding with her and see how different it feels to ride with someone more supportive!

[Catrin]

Definitely agree with this! I say take a break from riding with her and see how different it feels to ride with someone more supportive!

Yes, this! I enjoy riding by myself, and do ride solo most of the time. There are a few people I do enjoy riding with when our schedules work out, and occasionally I participate in club rides but I find myself riding solo then as well I am not all that fast, and that is fine.

Good words that I heard from a 9 year old yesterday

You do NOT have to be fast, but you DO have to have fun

[Tri Girl]

Good words that I heard from a 9 year old yesterday

You do NOT have to be fast, but you DO have to have fun

And 9 year olds know how to have fun- it's all playing to them! Love it!!!

[Owlie]

I agree--try riding by yourself at least some of the time. You can find your own pace and you don't have to compare yourself to others. I find I much prefer riding by myself (at least, on my rail-trail), because I'm a little competitive and self-critical and I keep finding faults with myself because I see what other people do. Riding needs to be fun.

I'll echo what everyone else has said--sometimes it's you, sometimes it's the bike. I don't climb well. Why? My bike doesn't quite fit me and is kind of heavy...and I'm not in the best of shape, or particularly light.

[Susan]

I'd say it's a little bit of both.

I had very good cyclists pass me uphills on their heavy 7-speed downhill bikes. Obviously if you are in very very good shape, you can still do great on a crappy bike.

On the other hand, there are hills that I could not climb on my commuter bike because it's too heavy and the geometry just isn't right that I have no problem with on my MTB. A friend of mine once switched his tires for ones that where more suited for downhill trails - he just couldn't get up the hills we used to ride because they where so heavy. So a the bike setup/a good bike does make a difference.

When riding with less experienced riders it usually helps if the slower rider has the better bike. I always ask my riding partners if they want to swap bikes if they are slower than me (most of the times however I am the one that rides the lightest "best" bike so that I can keep up with my male cycling friends). Or I try to stay behind them. Or at least I wait for them every now and then and tell them that they do a great job with such a heavy bike.

What your friend does is not nice and I understand that this isn't fun for you. I am not sure if the bike makes you feel bad or your friend.
If you think that you would enjoy cycling more with a new bike - get one it will be fun
If it is more you friend that makes you feel bad, maybe just ride by yourself or with someone else

[sarahkonamojo]

Hmm... She didn't want you to ride her bike. She has to be aware that she has a nicer bike. Or maybe just a more expensive one. But seems like letting you try her bike will either confirm that the extra $4,800 is worth it or she really can kick ***. Seems like a no brainer because she wins either way. And you get to try a nice bike.
I'd ask again...
S

[emily_in_nc]

Hmm... She didn't want you to ride her bike. She has to be aware that she has a nicer bike. Or maybe just a more expensive one. But seems like letting you try her bike will either confirm that the extra $4,800 is worth it or she really can kick ***. Seems like a no brainer because she wins either way. And you get to try a nice bike.
I'd ask again...
S

But only if it is the right size!

I'd happily change bikes with my friend who's riding a mountain bike and way slower than me, but she's about 4" taller than me. My munchkin road bike just wouldn't work AT ALL for her.

[shootingstar]

Honest...I didn't pay attention to this thread....because of the phrasing of Indians and arrows.

It turned me off.

I've never heard of that expression before... I have nothing else to add.

[Trek420]

You have a point. I must admit I avoided the thread for a bit thinking the same thing. I got that it'd be bikes and I thought long and hard about the expression (never heard it before either).

I'm not Native American myself so I can't speak to how I'd feel if I was one. And it's not one for me to say "oh, that was harmless" If I was would I feel hurt? Maybe. Unwelcome here? Maybe. Or bemused by a cycling group using an analogy that hunting by traditional ways takes much individual skill, attention to tools and more. Hope so.

I can't speak for the OP or the group but as a long term TE'er I hope nobody here took offense. Few places in cycberspace do as much to be welcoming to all, are sensitive to nuance and fast to catch and discuss this kind of stuff. Thanks Shootingstar for bringing this up.

It's why I stick around and hope everyone here will too.

[shootingstar]

The original poster is pretty new around here.

I gotta another story which I'll post as separate topic/thread.

[Geonz]

Welp, I had a pause at the title, too -- by itself and out of context it clearly says "it's the attributes of the user of the tool that's more important than the tool" -- I'm afraid I sat briefly pondering whether it woudl have been more or less jarring to say "Native American" instead of "Indian," then went back to the policy of It's Never Good To Ever Ever Ever Say Anything About Someone's Heritage Or Maternal Unit.

And 'round here, they say "it's not the chassis, it's the motor" -- BUT the same motor on a faster bike is ... faster! And a lighter bike will go up hills ... faster! And... it might be worth searching for "how to attack hills."

So Sayeth this Flatland Fool

[Velocivixen]

In regard to the title of the post and being culturally sensitive, those words are a quote from her riding friend, not the original poster. I suppose the original poster could have used different phrasing to make the same point, but she quoted her friend. I didn't take any offense to it.

[Cataboo]

i wouldn't expect anyone to match my pace on a hill. they can wait for me at the top. From experience, it is really really hard to climb a hill at a slower speed than your own. Basically, it means I mash my way up instead of spinning my way up.

As for loaning out a bike... Her friend probably has her own pedals, etc that don't match whatever the pedals are on the bianchi. Her friend's probably fitted to her bike and doesn't want to ride an entire ride on a bikethat doesn't fit her. I have loaned out bikes - I let TxDoc borrow my litespeed to ride when we were out here, and we swapped the pedals, seat height, flipped the stem, and moved the spacers. NOt a big deal - it did take me a few rides to tweak it back into "my position" that I was comfortable with. I did that knowing that TxDoc was a skilled rider and was unlikely to crash or scratch up my bike or carbon compoenents. But if I go with someone who isn't as good of a rider, no, I don't let them borrow my fancy road bikes with carbon components, because I've got to replace a bike that's worth thousands. They can borrow my steel frame, they can borrow my mountain bike... but I'll cry if they drop my bike and my carbon handlebars break.

Maybe her friend would have a different view about swapping bikes for just one or two hills to see the comparision.

As for the indian arrow thing... count up the number of teeth on your front crankset and let us know if it's a double vs. triple. Then count up the teeth on your back cassette... It may be that you have a standard double and huge gears, and you'd benefit from adjusting your bike so that it has more climbing gears. Your friend probably does have better climbing gears. She also has years more experience with changing gears and biking in general, and that really does make a differnce for climbing. A few years ago, I was horrible on hills... I'm still not great, but even if I take the winter off cycling... I still can climb a hill in a reasonably competant manner 'cause I've got better hill climbing skills than before.