Osama Bin Laden: dead

[Kitsune06]

I'm glad I'm not the only one surprised he wasn't captured for interrogation, trial, and moreover so the world could get a look at the man in custody and see him charged with his crimes against humanity as Saddam was and then shot, boiled alive, hung by his toenails or fed to rabid hamsters.

Saddam was found in a spider hole, haggard and used-up. Bin Laden? The report given says that he appeared well fed in a $1mil villa rather close to Pakistan's version of West Point. The guy was supposedly having weekly dialysis for renal failure But I guess if no autopsy was done we'll never know if that was true. He wasn't exceedingly mobile, and this after rumors went around that as of 2009 he was likely dead for 7 years post renal collapse. See here

The attack- Navy SEALs bust into the compound the US knew about since last August and not only head shoot him, but also kill everyone else in the room, though there are no US casualties, and then the body is rapidly disposed of at sea before the American public even knows the guy is dead. I would have thought they'd keep his body for autopsy or maybe to tick his head on a pike?

So really when it comes down to it is "He's gone, halleleuja, we did it, no you can't see the body, and there are no surviving witnesses but our men, but we're telling you it's true."

Maybe I'm still shell shocked after the Bush presidency, but doesn't any of that seem just a little fishy to anyone?

Just posting as an alternative way to think on this. I don't know that this will change anything because the man has gotten exactly what would be the best-case senario for his death- a violent slaying at the hands of the devil Americans. What better cause for his people to rally around?

I know revenge is a dish best served cold, and the people most affected by 9/11 may feel some peace, but this is not over. Our family members, husbands, brothers, and friends will still be deployed to the middle east to 'keep the peace'... whatever that means these days.

[ny biker]

This is a good blog post from a man who until recently was a personal tech columnist for the Washinton Post.

http://robpegoraro.com/2011/05/03/911-to-51/

[Mr. Bloom]

So really when it comes down to it is "He's gone, halleleuja, we did it, no you can't see the body, and there are no surviving witnesses but our men, but we're telling you it's true."

Maybe I'm still shell shocked after the Bush presidency, but doesn't any of that seem just a little fishy to anyone?

I hear ya', but if he were captured alive, I could see mass reprisals geared to gain his release... Or kidnappings for which OBL would be the ransom. Not a good outcome.

If he were alive, don't you think that there would be some benefit from al-Q saying "nah, nah...you got the wrong guy". Instead, they referred to him as a "martyr". Why would they want to allow him to suffer a "false death" since it would neutralize him for the cause...plus, if we didn't find him, that would mean that he was still successfully hidden somewhere else making us look that much more foolish. Pakistan also would have a vested interest in highlighting our error since we violated their sovereignty in the attack and making them look very two faced and foolish.

We've gone from "birthers" last week, to "deathers" this week. I, for one, have no reason to believe he wasn't killed, even if I don't see any pictures, videos, etc.

AND, if he in fact used his wife as a "human shield" during the action, I think it proves that he is just like the guy we found in a hole...

[NbyNW]

Oh, and even if the government were to release photos, copies of DNA tests, there would probably still be people who would claim it was fake. You just can't win sometimes.

[Irulan]

Oh, and even if the government were to release photos, copies of DNA tests, there would probably still be people who would claim it was fake. You just can't win sometimes.

...and creating new conspiracy theories about all of it. I think I'll go get my tin foil hat now.

[Xrayted]

Now the WH press secretary guy just came on and gave a more detailed description of what happened at the compound.

He wasn't armed??

[Xrayted]

Tin foil undies would be good too.

[nscrbug]

JMO...but who cares if he was unarmed or standing there with guns a blazing??? The man was evil to the core and I don't think for one second that our military had any intentions of taking him out of there alive.

[Trek420]

Tin foil undies would be good too.

Nah, you're supposed to line the floor of your trailer with tin foil so nobody can tap your phone line.

[Xrayted]

Just so you don't keep picking at this one for the rest of the thread... Kit never said she didn't believe he was dead or the account of it. She just poked you to question it a bit for yourself. It is fishy. When you first heard how it all went down, didn't you just sit there for a moment and say to yourself... "What?" Never stop doing that on issues as important as this. We tend to wander off to the next story or angle too quickly...

[ny biker]

When you first heard how it all went down, didn't you just sit there for a moment and say to yourself... "What?"

Nope. I thought: "Shot in the head? Good." And "Buried at sea? Good, no grave to turn into a shrine."

[Xrayted]

Really? That quick you thought about not having a shrine to him? Way faster than me, I guess. It took me about 10 minutes in my own thoughts to come up with that scenario. Still, I don't see why we afforded him that kind of honor.

[NbyNW]

Really? That quick you thought about not having a shrine to him? Way faster than me, I guess. It took me about 10 minutes in my own thoughts to come up with that scenario. Still, I don't see why we afforded him that kind of honor.

I wouldn't call it an honor. An honor would be giving his body over to his family (if they even want him) or followers and a cleric of his choosing. I think the burial at sea was more like taking the high road or not crossing a line. Because too many lines have been crossed by both sides already. And not throwing more fuel on an already out of control fire.

Oh, and here's a more-eloquent-than-mine piece on why not to release the photos.

[Kitsune06]

Oh, no, I'm sure we probably did get him, I mean if the RIAA can find people illegally downloading music all over the country and Corbin Fisher can seek out teens illegally downloading gay pr0n, then I would hope that in ten years we can find a man in a desert with 2 million troops deployed. I'm just saying it's odd that we didn't really gloat in it. We didn't take him and keep him in some dark little hole like Guantanimo and just say he died on-site. We didn't take him into custody and interrogate him until we knew everything about Al-Quaida's workings and then snuff him. We didn't parade him around. That's almost unAmerican for a country and culture that thrives on sensationalism and media fervor. You can spin our reasons for it however you want to. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and if you work hard enough to find a good reason not to have some kind of evidence, you will probably find or create one.

I'm just saying that if someone told you something that seemed off, would you believe it without thinking, or would you want some form of proof to put it in context? Anything with this much meaning, symbolism and potential concequence deserves to be ruminated on instead of taken at face value.

I'm not going off on how the government collected kids' baby teeth to test for strontium-90 post nuclear testing, or how we tested the effects of radiation on pregnant women, or how downwinders in Utah and Nevada are still suffering from the effects of nuclear fallout even though the US government said it was completely safe. Yes there is a specific theme to those, these are studies we've learned about in our radiation biology class, but there are many other tests on US civillians that the government has not told us about. Forgive my relative paranoia, but after reading these, it's hard not to feel that way.

I am just saying that we need to be aware that we are not always told the truth in this world, and the important things are worth questioning. Or not. Feel free.

[Irulan]

Really? That quick you thought about not having a shrine to him? Way faster than me, I guess. It took me about 10 minutes in my own thoughts to come up with that scenario. Still, I don't see why we afforded him that kind of honor.

Nowhere have I read that he was "Buried at sea with honor". More likely, dumped in the ocean. Where does is it written that if someone is buried at sea that it automatically infers a burial with honor...???

The not leaving a place for a shrine thing is a really big deal. DH and I were discussing that when the news first broke. I did read that the body was prepared according to religious guidelines, no need to fan the flames by disregarding that part of it.