Tell me about cadence

[Hi Ho Silver]

The speed of your bike is dependent on the gear ratio being used, the speed at which you rotate the pedals (referred to as the "cadence", measured in RPM), and the force you apply to the pedals. The important thing to grasp is that you can produce the same speed using different levels of gear ratios, cadences, and pedal forces. You can use this fact to help you through a ride. The cadence that is best for you is situational and depends on many things:

~~ If your heart is beating rapidly and you are having a hard time breathing - shift to a slightly harder (higher) gear, slow down your cadence and push harder on the pedals.

~~ If your thighs are burning - shift to a slightly lower (easier) gear, increase your cadence but don't push as hard on the pedals.

~~ If you are experiencing a lot of pain on the saddle and/or in the shoulders - shift to a higher gear, slow down your cadence and push harder on the pedals.

~~ Your "optimal" cadence depends on your cardiovascular condition, your mix of slow-twitch/fast-twitch muscles, and your particular goal for the ride. The definition of "optimal" (e.g. max VO2 efficiency, or minimum muscle strain, etc.) depends on which study you are looking at. Regardless of the study and the definition, a cadence betweeen 80 RPM and 100 RPM is generally considered "optimal".


Your pedalling strategy can vary throughout the course of a ride. For example, on flat sections I cruise along at 88 RPM. On long climbs, I change to an easier gear and mash along at roughly 60 RPM (I find that I can take any hill as long as I pedal along at around 5mph at roughly 60 RPM - despite being over 60 years old and having crappy knees). To accelerate, I'll shift to progressively harder gears and mash away until I get to the speed that I want, and then I'll change gears to find one where I can maintain that speed while spinning along at 88 RPM.

[OakLeaf]

Knott has posted demonstrations before showing that your ideal cadence has to do with your individual proportion of fast-twitch to slow-twitch muscles. So just like each engine has a different powerband, each person has a different powerband, too.

Still, 60 rpm seems excessively slow to me. Too slow and you're risking your knees. I'm a pretty slow-twitch endurance type, and the natural cadence I fall into for both easy riding and easy running is right around 85 rpm.

No matter what your ideal is, it's useful to train at high cadence. That helps smooth your pedal stroke like not too much else. Among other things, the lower your cadence, the easier it is to fall into pedaling in squares instead of circles, which not only is inefficient, it's extra hard on your knees.

[Hi Ho Silver]

60 rpm does sound slow, but the book "Bicycling Science" (by Whitt & Wilson) quotes some old studies indicating that lower rpm's are more muscle efficient. I have no idea how valid those studies are. The book also indicates that the "advice to riders to 'keep spinning' is appropriate only for maximum-speed, maximum sprinting". My own experience disagrees with the book. For me, long arduous grinds up the mountains out west were only possible at low rpm. But on the flats, my legs definitely prefer 88 rpm for cruising along.

[bmccasland]

Only thing I can add was some of the best advice from a spin instructor who does ride outside...

To help teach yourself to spin, think about your feet going around in circles, not mashing down. Of course this only works when you're clipped in.

I found on a ride when I was experimenting that if I thought about going in circles I could increase my cadence and speed without changing to a lower gear. I got to where I could spin up a short hill pretty easily. I'm toast on long hills. Circle, circle, circle. I can still see Mike's hand demonstrations in my mind.

[westtexas]

Okay, so I went out today (despite frigid weather of 55F and "misting" precipitation) and tried to focus more on spin and less on mash. The first half was miserable and gruesome and the second half was at least tolerable. Certainly, my legs feel fine (a little stretching afterwards also helped) but I do not think I have the cardiovascular strength (yet?) to spin at high rates. I don't have a cadence monitor but based on counting my strokes around the circle and counting time, I came up with a cadence of 80 rpm, but only if I was pedaling like my bike was on fire. My average speed was about the same (I measure based on distance/time) as it always is. I'm just not sure I'm cut out out for this quick cadence thing. I didn't enjoy my ride today at all. I guess it will have to be something I build up for. I did a lot of shifting to keep my cadence as steady as possible without fatiguing my muscles, so it's not like I was in a mashing gear trying to spin like a maniac.

Hmmm not really sure what to make of my ride today.

[indysteel]

I would agree that you will likely have to build up to it. I also wonder whether you also need to work on your pedal stroke. Out of curiosity, did you happen to note what gear you were using when you tried to sustain 80 rpms? Next time you go out, try to note what gear you're in and let us know. I have to wonder whether you're still trying to push too big of a gear, but in saying that, I will admit that I didn't struggle with this as a new rider. So perhaps I'm underestimating how challenging it might be to someone.

[westtexas]

My chain is on the big ring (farthest away from the bike) and about the middle of the rear rings (I often move to smaller rings in the rear when on flats or with tailwind). I think there are 9 rear rings if I remember correctly. If I shift to the little ring in front it makes a lot of awful noise so I tend to stay away from that... But I have a very hilly route and the wind is brutal out here, so maybe my problem lies there as well.

I have to agree with a lot of what Hi Ho Silver said - it's much easier for me to pedal slower and be in a higher gear because otherwise I am panting/out of breath. I don't get tired mashing around for 15 miles on my usual route. Today I only did 11 and at the end I was done. I think I am pretty much following all her posted rules about cadence already.

Maybe I am not doing anything wrong? Now I am confused. Sigh.

But, I would like to get faster, be more efficient and have better cardiovascular health, so that must be why higher cadences are more important. And then as you build better CV ability, you can spin just as fast in higher gears... right?

[Hi Ho Silver]

You have to take time to condition your body to spinning - i.e., work up to the "ideal"cadence.

Also, one thing about trying to spin at a high cadence - your bike fit must be set up correctly. If your seat is too far back or too low, spinning will be difficult. Have you had your bike fit checked?

[indysteel]

My chain is on the big ring (farthest away from the bike) and about the middle of the rear rings (I often move to smaller rings in the rear when on flats or with tailwind). I think there are 9 rear rings if I remember correctly. If I shift to the little ring in front it makes a lot of awful noise so I tend to stay away from that... But I have a very hilly route and the wind is brutal out here, so maybe my problem lies there as well.

I have to agree with a lot of what Hi Ho Silver said - it's much easier for me to pedal slower and be in a higher gear because otherwise I am panting/out of breath. I don't get tired mashing around for 15 miles on my usual route. Today I only did 11 and at the end I was done. I think I am pretty much following all her posted rules about cadence already.

Maybe I am not doing anything wrong? Now I am confused. Sigh.

But, I would like to get faster, be more efficient and have better cardiovascular health, so that must be why higher cadences are more important. And then as you build better CV ability, you can spin just as fast in higher gears... right?

What's the make and model of your bike? Does it have a triple, compact or standard double crank? I'm just trying to make an educated guess as to whether you're trying to spin in too big of a gear. While I agree that it takes spme conditioning, I also suspect that you may not be choosing the right gear.

[Crankin]

I was about to say the same thing, Indy. If your bike is a compact double (which I suspect it is), you should not be using only the big ring for a ride that is very hilly. No wonder a high cadence is hard! If your bike is not working well in the small ring, bring it in to be checked.

[indysteel]

I see from a past thread that you're riding a 2009 Specialized Dolce. From what I can tell from Specialized's website, you like have a 50-34 compact with a 9-speed 12-25 cassette. If you were in the middle of the cassette and on your big chain ring--factoring in wind and hills--I'm willing to bet that you were in slightly too big of a gear to spin comfortably at 80 rmp. Now, that's just a guess, but I would suggest redoing your experiment but try a gear or two smaller. While you do want a bit of resistance on your pedals, you want to choose a gear that is relatively easy. As Crankin said, get your bike serviced so that you can use your front chain ring. You need full access to those gears if you're going to deal effectively with your terrain and wind conditions. Once you get the issue fixed, start playing around more with your gearing while you attempt to spin a bit faster.

I used to run a triple on my road bike and now I have a compact with a 10-speed cassette. The jumps between gears are greater on the compact than on the triple, and it's a bit harder to find the perfect sweet spot in certain conditions. I have to shift in both the front and back a lot more now than I used to (I used to use my middle ring in most flat conditions almost exclusively and tended to use only a handful of rear cogs). I've found with the compact that I often end up using--out of a bit of laziness--slightly too big of a gear such that I struggle to spin like I used to with my triple. I wonder if you might be encountering the same issue--you are either settling on a gear that's slightly too big, which you're either mashing or getting out of breath trying to spin or too little of a gear that you end up spinning a bit too wildly on because you don't have enough resistance. A compact crank can take some getting used to as a result.

[OakLeaf]

A noisy chain is either a sign that you're cross chaining or a need for adjustment... not a reason not to use half your gears!

[Catrin]

A noisy chain is either a sign that yoi're cross chaining or a need for adjustment... not a reason not to use half your gears!

I had a huge problem with this last year, until one of the wrenches at my LBS explained that I need to trim my FD from time to time, and when I understood this better the problem went away. At the height of the problem I couldn't use more than a third of my gears My not understanding trimming had led to everything getting out of adjustment, and it just fed the cycle until I learned.

[Bike Writer]

I've been following this discussion with great interest because I have issues (or had more in the past) with finding the proper gear for hills and my tendancy to get winded. Granted I am not in the best physical condition but I found myself walking up hills often. With a new bike that has a greater range of gears I have yet to had one that I've walked up. However I do at times have to stop and catch my breath on bigger hills.

I have a 14-34t Mega Range cassette on the back and 42/34/24 on the front.

If I am reading all this correctly I might be getting winded from spinning too much? I think this is going to take some trial and error and perhaps I should be practicing and getting the feel of the different gears on flats?

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems as though the additional gears make the effective length of the chain shorter? Is that why I feel that I get quicker acceleration and more power from or is it something else? I think the winded part is more from me not being in better condition + needing more practice with using the correct gear for the situation. And of course timing is everything and catching the feel for when is the optimal time to shift is probably like putting or the short game of golf....it comes with practice.

[OakLeaf]

Is that why I feel that I get quicker acceleration and more power from or is it something else?

Quicker acceleration and more power are from using a lower gear. That's why stoplight drag racers usually drop a tooth from stock on their front sprocket.

Your new setup still has the middle gear ranges, you just have the option to use lower gears now. If you're getting winded on hills that you used to be able to climb on the bike, then it's either a matter of working on your cardio endurance or, yes, possibly using a taller gear. But if you're now riding up hills and getting winded that you used to have to walk ... that's only because you're exerting yourself more.