Car Shopping - Small Crossovers

[OakLeaf]

That reminds me...my '10 Cannondale Synapse was made in the US, but not my '11 SuperSix. I seem to recall reading that as of this model year there are very few Cdales made in the US, now.

that's weird ... my '07 Synapse was Asian-made, although I forget what country. Back then it was only the hi-mod carbon frames that were still being made in the USA (by any of the big three) - I'm surprised they brought them back even for a short time.


I don't think there are many people who don't realize that we live in a global economy ... but there are plenty of jobs where the badge on your car is important. Lots of people have to buy a car to please their superiors, not (just) their neighbors.

[Crankin]

I'm happy to discuss socialized medicine and funding birth control anytime.
Of course, I'm an effete liberal snob from the Northeast, so my opinions suck, according to some .

[Bike Chick]

Xrayted, you completely missed one word in my post: UNION!

Our household tries to support the American auto worker as best we can by buying American AND union-made vehicles. When you buy a car built by an American company, made in America by American workers, you not only support the workers, but the retirees and your money stays mostly here in this country.

For the record, if the VIN number begins with a 1, 4, or 5, it identifies it as an American made vehicle; a 2 identifies a Canadian-made vehicle.

And, no, Ford did not take any money.

[zoom-zoom]

that's weird ... my '07 Synapse was Asian-made, although I forget what country. Back then it was only the hi-mod carbon frames that were still being made in the USA (by any of the big three) - I'm surprised they brought them back even for a short time.

Mine is aluminum, if that makes any difference. I think the last few Cdale models made in the US were the aluminum frames (Synapse and CAAD 9). I think pretty much all of their carbon frames are made overseas, now.

[Kitsune06]

Yes, because ALL unions do SO MUCH to benefit their employees and symbiotically benefit their companies. I'd like to remind that there are quite a few unions out there that do little but suck up their members' union dues.
When something more than simple 'representation' is asked of them, they are strangely silent and often absent. When the reps are asked about it (I'm midwestern- I get to the point) they do little but make excuses. Maybe that's just my experience, but "union made" is not a guarantee of quality- quality of product nor quality of worker treatment.

X's point was that the number of American cars made in America is vanishingly small these days and if you break it down, many are merely assembled in America out of parts produced and shipped in from Asia. Her Harley, while made by American workers in Milwaukee or Kansas or Wherever, USA is basically 80-90% Asian, and we both know this because whenever something breaks (and it does, and it will) all the replacement parts read "made in Japan" (or Taiwan). ...as do all the parts for my Honda. My Chevy is actually a crappier, cheaper version of the Suzuki Grand Vitara from the same time period. If I want to 'upgrade' the appearance of things that break (and they will, it's 12 year old plastic), I just order the equivalent Suzuki part... or I would, if that Japanese/American co-owned company was still in business in Canada...

The other point is that it often doesn't matter where the parent company is located- Toyota has manufacturing plants here in the states, so if you want a car made in America, by Americans, paid American wages, buy a Toyota. A wholly made-in-America car is as easy to find as a TV made in the USA. By the time you pay American workers American wages to produce every little component in that thing, then assemble the car, it would no longer be affordable for most Americans.

Someone pointed out Ford didn't take bailout money- no, they didn't, because they had thought to diversify into the booming Asian market. GM didn't have that foresight, not to the degree that Ford did. %35 in Mazda wasn't a lot, but it was 'enough' to soften the blow.

I wish we could get the motor companies to release in America HALF the great cars and motorcycles that go to the European or Asian markets- Low mpg, great features, the bikes are smaller, lighter and more practical, but the mocos are just too smart- they know the average American won't buy them because of the 'name' or because it doesn't need to have the power output of a diesel truck for hauling groceries and 3.5 kids. Darn shame.

[OakLeaf]

Y'know, unions are like lawyers. There are a courageous few who stick their collective necks out to try to increase people's rights. Among the majority who are content to merely help people enforce the rights they already have, some are more skilled than others, and some are more diligent than others. And it burns people when they have to pay a lawyer, or a union, for no other reason than to get something that theoretically should already be theirs. But a right without the ability to enforce it is no right at all.

It wasn't that long ago that Americans were laying down their lives to be in a Union. If a large proportion of non-Union workers in the USA have better-than-third-world working conditions, they can thank the Unions whose work and sacrifices brought those laws into existence.

Taft-Hartley, among other anti-Union laws, is one of the reasons why USA Unions haven't been able to bring working conditions in the USA up to the level of the rest of the first world ... and why Unions here are actually largely prohibited from "more than simple 'representation,'" or even "simple representation" outside a narrowly defined range of issues. If you want your Union to have more power, lobby your legislators for that.

No, democracy all by itself doesn't solve anything, especially when the range of questions one can vote on is so restricted. But I think most of us would much rather have more control over our lives than less - and the workplace is a large part of most peoples' and families' lives.

[Xrayted]

Yup. I know Ford didn't take any money. I alluded to that but I guess you missed the whole point. Ford is diversified and sends and takes $$$ back and forth on each and every vehicle. Those union guys couldn't make those cars without the people in those other countries. Why? Ford and all the rest sent their $$ overseas because they can and are making good stuff, their labor is a lot cheaper than the local guys can produce, even with shipping costs. Ford sent a bunch of manufacturing of the whole vehicles too.

We are a big reason why the global economy is strong. When we tanked a bit, the whole world felt it. We rely on everyone around us, not just a few thousand people who are in a certain union. We are somewhat responsible for them as well, since we've chosen to make them an integral part of our system. To say that you are buying completely American and only from a totally Union shop is false. There is no such product on this earth.

Btw, you are on a global forum right now. People from all walks, all continents, working together so that it gets better for all. If this was just a bunch of USA only women on here, we would be missing so many good things. It just wouldn't be the same. Personally, I'd also be missing my brakes, seat, pedals, handlebars, grip tape, frame, spokes, etc.... because they were all made in other countries with an "american" badge on the front of the bike.


Oh, and yes, I'm a union employee, too.

[Xrayted]

Ford owned 33-37% of Mazda for quite a few years. It made $$$ so they kept buying in more. Then when they made some not so smart moves and tehn the US stared buying "american", they tried to sell off the brand because americans thought Mazda wasn't an american company. Many american jobs were created with that company, and many were lost so that we could buy american. As I stated, they were the majority stock holder. Everyone has their hands in pockets all over the place these days. Everyone. There is no buying strictly american or union, for that matter. It simply doesn't exist.

Yes, true. Unions did a lot for working conditions. You said it, they helped bring them up the standards of the rest of the world. For such a "we are all equal, we all have rights, we are free, we are the best" country, why did we need to rise up in unions in the first place then? Why were our conditions that way compared the rest of the civilized world? The mighty dollar, which seems to control everything, is the answer. We are rather greedy bunch here, wanting ours and screw everyone else. We fail to see that by having that mentality, we screw ourselves, too.

Have a nice day. I'm going shopping.