Car Shopping - Small Crossovers

[Chicken Little]

Hey, while we're at it, lets talk about socialized medicine and funding birth control.

[Xrayted]

Hey, while we're at it, lets talk about socialized medicine and funding birth control.

Exactly my point! Thank you for getting it.

That's why I added the video back a couple of posts... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMO8Pyi3UpY

[zoom-zoom]

Your Mazda was owned by Ford. Btw, many Fords are not made in the US either.

To the best of my knowledge Ford never controlled more than about 33% of Mazda...I think they may not have much controlling interest at all, at this point. I seem to recall that they sold a lot of their shares of Volvo, as well.

My Escort was made in the US. That was a fun and fast experience. Our dealer actually called us the day it left the stamping plant on the other side of the state...only took a couple of weeks. We ordered exactly the specs we wanted and it was built to order. Our experience buying our Mazda wasn't nearly as fun and involved a much longer wait. Mazda didn't build to spec. We had to wait until a vehicle was available with our basic package and color, then the dealership added some of the cosmetic things that are not factory-installed on any of their vehicles.

The Ford/Mazda partnership over the years has been sort of interesting to me, as the 3 cars I've owned have been either Mazdas or Fords.

As much fun as my 3 is to drive, I'm leaning towards going back to Ford for my next vehicle (really like the looks of the C-Max for our growing kid and bike habit). DH and I have owned 3 Mazdas and have found them all to be somewhat quirky. I have a CEL on my 3 that's been lit for about a year. Every time our mechanic runs the code and fixes whatever is setting the CEL off, something else triggers it. All codes have been related to the fuel fill/evap system. The sheet metal is horrible, as well. My 5 year old car has about 5x the dings that my 11 year old Escort did when we sold it to a friend. I've got dings in the doors from parking lots, as well as dings in the hood and roof from acorns and pinecones. And BIG dents under the feet for our roof rack. Our little Escort was boring, but super efficient and reliable. In almost 200k miles it was never in the shop for anything other than typical wear-and-tear. Ford's recent reliability ratings continue to impress me.

[OakLeaf]

That reminds me...my '10 Cannondale Synapse was made in the US, but not my '11 SuperSix. I seem to recall reading that as of this model year there are very few Cdales made in the US, now.

that's weird ... my '07 Synapse was Asian-made, although I forget what country. Back then it was only the hi-mod carbon frames that were still being made in the USA (by any of the big three) - I'm surprised they brought them back even for a short time.


I don't think there are many people who don't realize that we live in a global economy ... but there are plenty of jobs where the badge on your car is important. Lots of people have to buy a car to please their superiors, not (just) their neighbors.

[Crankin]

I'm happy to discuss socialized medicine and funding birth control anytime.
Of course, I'm an effete liberal snob from the Northeast, so my opinions suck, according to some .

[Bike Chick]

Xrayted, you completely missed one word in my post: UNION!

Our household tries to support the American auto worker as best we can by buying American AND union-made vehicles. When you buy a car built by an American company, made in America by American workers, you not only support the workers, but the retirees and your money stays mostly here in this country.

For the record, if the VIN number begins with a 1, 4, or 5, it identifies it as an American made vehicle; a 2 identifies a Canadian-made vehicle.

And, no, Ford did not take any money.

[zoom-zoom]

that's weird ... my '07 Synapse was Asian-made, although I forget what country. Back then it was only the hi-mod carbon frames that were still being made in the USA (by any of the big three) - I'm surprised they brought them back even for a short time.

Mine is aluminum, if that makes any difference. I think the last few Cdale models made in the US were the aluminum frames (Synapse and CAAD 9). I think pretty much all of their carbon frames are made overseas, now.

[Kitsune06]

Yes, because ALL unions do SO MUCH to benefit their employees and symbiotically benefit their companies. I'd like to remind that there are quite a few unions out there that do little but suck up their members' union dues.
When something more than simple 'representation' is asked of them, they are strangely silent and often absent. When the reps are asked about it (I'm midwestern- I get to the point) they do little but make excuses. Maybe that's just my experience, but "union made" is not a guarantee of quality- quality of product nor quality of worker treatment.

X's point was that the number of American cars made in America is vanishingly small these days and if you break it down, many are merely assembled in America out of parts produced and shipped in from Asia. Her Harley, while made by American workers in Milwaukee or Kansas or Wherever, USA is basically 80-90% Asian, and we both know this because whenever something breaks (and it does, and it will) all the replacement parts read "made in Japan" (or Taiwan). ...as do all the parts for my Honda. My Chevy is actually a crappier, cheaper version of the Suzuki Grand Vitara from the same time period. If I want to 'upgrade' the appearance of things that break (and they will, it's 12 year old plastic), I just order the equivalent Suzuki part... or I would, if that Japanese/American co-owned company was still in business in Canada...

The other point is that it often doesn't matter where the parent company is located- Toyota has manufacturing plants here in the states, so if you want a car made in America, by Americans, paid American wages, buy a Toyota. A wholly made-in-America car is as easy to find as a TV made in the USA. By the time you pay American workers American wages to produce every little component in that thing, then assemble the car, it would no longer be affordable for most Americans.

Someone pointed out Ford didn't take bailout money- no, they didn't, because they had thought to diversify into the booming Asian market. GM didn't have that foresight, not to the degree that Ford did. %35 in Mazda wasn't a lot, but it was 'enough' to soften the blow.

I wish we could get the motor companies to release in America HALF the great cars and motorcycles that go to the European or Asian markets- Low mpg, great features, the bikes are smaller, lighter and more practical, but the mocos are just too smart- they know the average American won't buy them because of the 'name' or because it doesn't need to have the power output of a diesel truck for hauling groceries and 3.5 kids. Darn shame.

[OakLeaf]

Y'know, unions are like lawyers. There are a courageous few who stick their collective necks out to try to increase people's rights. Among the majority who are content to merely help people enforce the rights they already have, some are more skilled than others, and some are more diligent than others. And it burns people when they have to pay a lawyer, or a union, for no other reason than to get something that theoretically should already be theirs. But a right without the ability to enforce it is no right at all.

It wasn't that long ago that Americans were laying down their lives to be in a Union. If a large proportion of non-Union workers in the USA have better-than-third-world working conditions, they can thank the Unions whose work and sacrifices brought those laws into existence.

Taft-Hartley, among other anti-Union laws, is one of the reasons why USA Unions haven't been able to bring working conditions in the USA up to the level of the rest of the first world ... and why Unions here are actually largely prohibited from "more than simple 'representation,'" or even "simple representation" outside a narrowly defined range of issues. If you want your Union to have more power, lobby your legislators for that.

No, democracy all by itself doesn't solve anything, especially when the range of questions one can vote on is so restricted. But I think most of us would much rather have more control over our lives than less - and the workplace is a large part of most peoples' and families' lives.

[Xrayted]

Yup. I know Ford didn't take any money. I alluded to that but I guess you missed the whole point. Ford is diversified and sends and takes $$$ back and forth on each and every vehicle. Those union guys couldn't make those cars without the people in those other countries. Why? Ford and all the rest sent their $$ overseas because they can and are making good stuff, their labor is a lot cheaper than the local guys can produce, even with shipping costs. Ford sent a bunch of manufacturing of the whole vehicles too.

We are a big reason why the global economy is strong. When we tanked a bit, the whole world felt it. We rely on everyone around us, not just a few thousand people who are in a certain union. We are somewhat responsible for them as well, since we've chosen to make them an integral part of our system. To say that you are buying completely American and only from a totally Union shop is false. There is no such product on this earth.

Btw, you are on a global forum right now. People from all walks, all continents, working together so that it gets better for all. If this was just a bunch of USA only women on here, we would be missing so many good things. It just wouldn't be the same. Personally, I'd also be missing my brakes, seat, pedals, handlebars, grip tape, frame, spokes, etc.... because they were all made in other countries with an "american" badge on the front of the bike.


Oh, and yes, I'm a union employee, too.

[Xrayted]

Ford owned 33-37% of Mazda for quite a few years. It made $$$ so they kept buying in more. Then when they made some not so smart moves and tehn the US stared buying "american", they tried to sell off the brand because americans thought Mazda wasn't an american company. Many american jobs were created with that company, and many were lost so that we could buy american. As I stated, they were the majority stock holder. Everyone has their hands in pockets all over the place these days. Everyone. There is no buying strictly american or union, for that matter. It simply doesn't exist.

Yes, true. Unions did a lot for working conditions. You said it, they helped bring them up the standards of the rest of the world. For such a "we are all equal, we all have rights, we are free, we are the best" country, why did we need to rise up in unions in the first place then? Why were our conditions that way compared the rest of the civilized world? The mighty dollar, which seems to control everything, is the answer. We are rather greedy bunch here, wanting ours and screw everyone else. We fail to see that by having that mentality, we screw ourselves, too.

Have a nice day. I'm going shopping.

[Irulan]

Best thing to do when it snows in Seattle is leave your car home and ride your bike..... I don't care if you do have AWD, if you can't get around all the other schmoes who are stuck, you are stuck too....

I live on Capitol Hill and work at a hospital, and though I don't have a vital job, they still expect me to be there unless the world is pretty much coming to an end - I dress warmly and pull out the cross bike (someday I swear I'm going to outfit it with studs) when there's snow on the ground here and laugh at all the people who are lined up stuck on 23rd/Montlake.....

lol the best snow rig in the world won't save you in a) in ice storms and b) from other drivers

[Irulan]

I'm so very fond of the Subaru Outback but since any car in our household has to be union and American made, the Subaru is out. I'm looking at the 2011 Ford Explorer right now. Very, very, nice and good gas mileage.

Good mileage compared to a Suburban or Hummer maybe.

I'm sorry to come off heavy here, but anything anything under at 25 mpg is NOT good mileage. There are lots of vehicles out there getting 30,35+ MPG. We've had three Explorers that never got more than 22. DH needs a SUV for a work truck. We drove the new one and thought it was a real dog.

[Irulan]

We're looking at the Mazda 2 and 3, the Nissan Versa, and the Ford Focus. Actually just saw the Focus yesterday and that is a nice looking car. Also may consider the Nissan Lief and the Toyota Yaris.

I have the 3 wagon, be happy to discuss it.

I'm pretty sure my Mazda has some Volvo stuff on it too.

[nscrbug]

Ford did not take any bailout money. The Mazda trucks are basically Fords, no idea about the other vehicles.
I've actually just started looking at vehicles as I'm going to be getting a new work vehicle at some point, just need to get debt paid down first. The biggest thing I'm looking for are fuel effient as possible (and better than my current car), a good bit of easy to use and get to storage space and I really want radio controls on the steering wheel. Yes, my current car has spoiled me. No we are not getting rid of any of our vehicles for the new one. I've basically decided it needs to be a hatchback car. We have two pick up trucks and do NOT need an SUV (nor do I want one). We're looking at the Mazda 2 and 3, the Nissan Versa, and the Ford Focus. Actually just saw the Focus yesterday and that is a nice looking car. Also may consider the Nissan Lief and the Toyota Yaris.

We had considered the Leaf as a possible purchase...that is, until we found out that they are pretty much useless in cold climates. That 100-mile range they supposedly have, drops down into the 40's when the temperature drops. If you happen to live in a "green" state (west coast, SW, & south), then I'm sure the Leaf would be awesome...but for us in the Midwest, not so much.