Mammalian Dive Reflex

[Cataboo]

Hulagirl, I think the problem is that what you are calling the mammalian dive reflex is not what you are describing - you're describing the involuntary cold water gasp reflex. Both happen as a reaction to cold water, but they're not the same process.

I don't swim really, but I know as a kayaker, we're all warned strongly about the cold water gasp reflex and the panic that it can cause, even if you're wearing a drysuit and should be fine in the water temperatures. The other thing to worry about is cold water getting in the ear canal really can do a number on your balance.

Links:
http://www.oregon.gov/OSMB/safety/co...mmersion.shtml
Four Stages of Cold Water Immersion

Stage 1 -Cold Water Shock
When someone falls into cold water their first unconscious response is to take a large breath of air, called the "involuntary gasp reflex." If their face is in the water when that gasp occurs, then their chances of survival immediately diminish.

http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm

I also find it funny that Hulagirl quoted a blog and Knotted yet is quoting scientific articles.

[hulagirl]

I also find it funny that Hulagirl quoted a blog and Knotted yet is quoting scientific articles.

I'm glad I could be of entertainment value! Once you suffer through a shitty 2000k swim like I did, you are desperate to figure out what is wrong. Finally finding someone that specifically wrote to my issues - blog, scientific, whatever - was such a relief.

Being told I'm 'just panicking' is much different than being told that what I'm having is called "Cold Water Shock." There is a HUGE difference. One you can control with time, training, focus, and experience - the other, you can't (well, at least you can't in a triathlon that bans wet-suits!).

Thanks for the link. I have to figure out a way to keep my core temp warm and my heart rate elevated so that I can feel good when I get in the water! LOL!

[KnottedYet]

I never said you were "just panicking."

I was pointing out that what you and the blog-dude and I experience is not from the MDR.

Cataboo found our culprit: a cold water reaction that makes us gasp and panic. (and I'm not talking about a cognitive panic, I'm talking about physiological panic, the arousal that the third paper I linked said could override the effects of the MDR and cause tachycardia, etc.)

Clearly the solution is to hang out in nice warm water... with a floatie and a beer for me!

[Bike Chick]

Clearly the solution is to hang out in nice warm water... with a floatie and a beer for me!

Wonderful solution! As a matter of fact, this was the extent of my swimming until 3 years ago when a cycling friend suggested we try triathlon and I had to learn to swim. I was like Catrin and didn't even want water in my face in the shower. Btw, I used a washcloth to wash my face back then--no splashing for me--and would lean backwards to rinse my hair. No kidding! When I finally got over my fear of putting my face in the water, then it was the anxiety-ridden fear of being in water over my head. I couldn't swim the length of the pool without having a panic attack when I got to the deep end. I have overcome that but now am trying to get over my fear of open water. I hadn't even considered cold, open water. Oh my! My first OWS was last year and the result was my turning around at the first bouy and heading back to shore. No kidding. I am trying it again in May and am not looking forward to it.

[Catrin]

...Btw, I used a washcloth to wash my face back then--no splashing for me--and would lean backwards to rinse my hair. No kidding! When I finally got over my fear of putting my face in the water, then it was the anxiety-ridden fear of being in water over my head. I couldn't swim the length of the pool without having a panic attack when I got to the deep end. I have overcome that but now am trying to get over my fear of open water. I hadn't even considered cold, open water. Oh my! My first OWS was last year and the result was my turning around at the first bouy and heading back to shore. No kidding. I am trying it again in May and am not looking forward to it.

I am still the same way with washing face/hair. It doesn't mean I CAN'T do it other ways, just don't like to do so

I can, however, float on my back and have a pretty decent back stroke - or at least I used to I like the idea of hanging out in the warm water with a nice beer and floatie. Ahhhhhhhhh, nice way to recover from a long ride!

[Crankin]

How else would you rinse your hair? I've always done that... stand with my back toward the shower and lean back. It doesn't make sense to me, to do it any other way.
Good luck with the open water swim, Bike Chick. I remember that we were both thinking about tris at the same time. You went for it and I decided I am too afraid of drowning and my running is so slow, it's crazy.
And... I am lazy.

[Susan]

How else would you rinse your hair? I've always done that... stand with my back toward the shower and lean back. It doesn't make sense to me, to do it any other way.

Well, I usually rinse my hair by sticking my whole head under the shower, water running down my face and breathing through the water spraying it everywhere. It clearly doesn't make any sense but it's fun

Then again I was able to dive long before I was able to swim as a kid and I also like to lie in the bathtub upside down, sticking my face into the water, making funny noises and sing under water.

Rereading this and realizing this could be taken as ironic - it's not. i really AM that strange


Hulagirl - sorry that you don't feel well! Regarding your fear of water I wish I could say something that would give you the opportunity to experience how good swimming or diving feels for me. I guess someone without a certain fear can't help someone that has to deal with this fear (like people without the fear of Dentists can't help me cope with them) but being under water is so calming and beautiful for me. I always wish I had enough air to stay there as long as I want to.

[hulagirl]

I was snarky yesterday. I'm sorry. I was feeling off and it turns out I was food poisoned. 8 confirmed century riders that had lunch at the same restaurant. Dept of health is taking it pretty seriously. They think it's norovirus.

Anyway - back to swimming. I'm not a confident swimmer - though getting much better. I did my first 2 tris with a nose plug! I have one coming up Sunday that worries me now due to my illness. But I've taken many lessons and train with a supportive group of ladies. It's a great big accomplishment to complete the swim for me. Bike Chick - do you have a "happy stroke?" For me it's the breast stroke. And I can float on my back for days. If you can find that happy stroke that allows you to relax and a short super sprint swim distance, it might be a good start.

We have an all women's Tri here on Oahu. Sprint and super sprint distance. That was my first and it was so much fun. Do you have anything like that near you?

I've got a bear of an Olympic distance coming up in a month - 1500m swim. Ugh!

[redrhodie]

Hope you feel better in time for your race! Make sure you're up to it. You won't be proving anything to anyone racing sick, except that you're stubborn.