my congresswoman was shot today

[crazycanuck]

As an outsider, i'm going to probably be thwacked for this but....

I have to say...isn't it the "we must have a gun because it's in the consititution" type culture in the US that's to blame?

[lph]

While I personally am strongly against private gun ownership, I don't think one can put the blame on a single element.

I like Knot's take on it - we all bear responsibility for the world we are living in, by our actions or by our passivity. We're all both the good guys and the bad guys.

[OakLeaf]

My take...

Loughner used his second amendment right exactly as responsibly as a lot of people have been using their first amendment rights.

Both are important political rights. Both have the potential to do great harm.

I could go on about the lack of civic education and what I think has CAUSED the irresponsibility, but I'll stop there. I too agree with Knott.

[azfiddle]

Though my first response to the shooting, like many others, was to attribute a political motivation to the shooter... both information and reflection have caused me to focus on working to for positive change.

Gabrielle Giffords' husband has suggested donations to the Red Cross or Community Food bank as a way of expressing your support or feelings.

[channlluv]

...Loughner used his second amendment right exactly as responsibly as a lot of people have been using their first amendment rights.

Wow. That's excellent. I'm going to be quoting you today.

azfiddle, thanks so much for sharing the bike vigil link. What a moving experience that must have been. Even second hand, I got a little teary.

I'm amazed that the young man who saved Giffords' life is only 20 years old. Has he been trained in emergency medicine, or was all of that just instinctive? He ran TOWARD gunfire. Who's going to do that? I'm pretty sure I would have been diving behind the nearest column or car.

Roxy

[OakLeaf]

More on her progress, for those who haven't seen it.

Have your tissues ready.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...an-schultz-abo

[Desert Tortoise]

Channlluv, he has some emergency response training. In interviews he talked about how he stayed with Giffords until the paramedics arrived and then moved out of the way to let them do their jobs. But, he would not leave her alone and stayed with her, talking to her and she squeezing his hand in response.

Hopefully you'll get to see some of his interviews with the media. Normally I'm not a big fan of this stuff but this young 20 year old is articulate and thoughtful. If I didn't know how young he is, I would have sworn this was a mature and experienced man.

And he just started his internship with Giffords 5 days before Saturday. Does Giffords know how to pick them or what?!

[hebe]

This article has been on my mind very much these last few days. It's a very simple profile of those who lost their lives in this senseless attack. My thoughts remain with the families and communities affected.

[Trek420]

More on her progress, for those who haven't seen it.

Have your tissues ready.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...an-schultz-abo

Thanks for the warning Very moving.

[KnottedYet]

I am profoundly moved that the National 9/11 Flag Quilt was at Christina Green's funeral. As one commentator said, she was born on one day of national mourning and died on another. http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/01/13...morial/?hpt=C2

I am also deeply grateful that so many people organized to help protect the little girl's funeral from the Baptists who publicized their plans to protest and demonstrate in front of it. And grateful to Ms. Brewer, who passed emergency legislation to protect the funerals of the other victims from the Baptists.

[tzvia]

As an outsider, i'm going to probably be thwacked for this but....

I have to say...isn't it the "we must have a gun because it's in the consititution" type culture in the US that's to blame?

As a gun owner, (and yes I own a 9mm and 20 and 30 round magazines), I would say no. Please remember, that Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people with fertilizer. What a killer uses is just a tool. The user determines purpose, good or bad. What it looks like here is a case of an adult (he is 22) deciding not to get mental medical aid, not to take meds, but instead to take illegal drugs. He then reads some info about the evil of our monetary society, and blends it in his ill mind with his anti-Semitic delusions. He gets kicked out of community college as they fear he is a danger, but it does not appear they followed it up with the authorities as there was no record of this when he went to buy a gun last November as it did not show up on his NICS background check. He continues to take drugs and not see a doctor. Finally, he pops. That anyone would blame the gun is just missing what is going on.

Guns are used far more often in the U.S. to prevent crime than cause it. I have had to grab a gun in defense once, when several people dressed in black tried to come up the side of the house and get into my back yard at 1am. Thankfully, they saw it and gave some lame-o excuse and beat it quick.

Our neighbor to the south, Mexico, is dealing with drug lords running amok and the death toll there last year was 15,273 (not including crimes of passion). This is higher than the war in Afghanistan in the same time period. The citizens don't have the right to arms, and are dying like cattle; no ability to defend themselves. The drug cartels have lots of guns; they don't care about silly laws that say they can't have them. Here in the U.S. we can choose to defend ourselves. We have 3 times the population, and the right to arms, but our death toll annually is about 17,000 by comparison. I say we don't have Mexico's problem partially due to our law abiding gun owners.

Sorry for the long ramble, I'm off my soapbox now.

What happened is appalling. My heart goes out to all who are affected by this horrible tragedy. It's our mental health support that failed on several levels, but it's not going to be easy to fix. As an adult, he could refuse treatment and incarceration in an institution as he had not been found guilty of a crime before his rampage. So how does one balance our freedom against forcing someone into treatment against their will?

[lunacycles]

Guns are used far more often in the U.S. to prevent crime than cause it.

I'd honestly be interested in seeing facts or documentation to support this statement.

[tzvia]

I'd honestly be interested in seeing facts or documentation to support this statement.

A very highly regarded professor of criminology, Gary Kleck, Ph.D. of Florida State University, did a study that shows that guns are 'used' (meaning anything from shouting "I have a gun, leave my house" to actual use) to prevent crimes more often (almost twice as often) than commit them. The information is out there, Google is your friend. When I was forced to grab a gun in my own home (thankfully they did not want to challenge my rifle) I was strongly anti gun- the rifle, a .22, was my father's and probably would not work if I tried, and was empty. It took the L.A. Riots to make me re-think my reliance on police.

As for the 'you are more likely to be a victim if you have a gun', that is skewed anti-gun nonsense. First, the data is taken from emergency room info- which leaves out the vast majority of defensive gun use like mine, no shots fired AND not reported to authorities. Also, it is skewed as violent people own violent things (not the other way around) and yes gang bangers, drug dealers and other violent type criminals do shoot each other. Sprouting that as proof that owning a gun is dangerous is quite a stretch.

Now, firearms accidents are another 'foaming at the mouth' anti-gun talking point that should be addressed while the topic is open. From the CDC (http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html if you wish to look), the last year they have data, 2007, was 613, out of a population of 301,579,895, a rate of .20. This rate per 100,000 has been falling since the 1930s despite an increase of firearms ownership, population AND an increase in 'shall issue' concealed carry- citizens carrying firearms concealed in public. By comparison, 820 people died in bicycle-involved accidents, a rate of .27 so owning a firearm is is safer than cycling.

Sorry for the long post from my soapbox again ...

[Aggie_Ama]

The more that comes out on this seems to be a failure of massive proportions on our mental health system. The shooter was acting out long before this, I view it as a cry for help.

I still am not a fan of handguns but my husband owns a shotgun and rifle for occasional hunting trips. My mom taught me to view any gun as loaded and learn were the safety is. I am completely okay with him having them. I am also completely fine with there being rifles and shotguns in the house with my nieces. The seven year old took gun safety this year and the five year old told me guns are not toys when she saw one on TV. That is the slippery slope with guns, there are responsible owners everywhere. Some people have guns for evil and are able to get them readily.

[Trek420]

there are responsible owners everywhere. Some people have guns for evil and are able to get them readily.

Statistics don't matter when the godson of a friend is shot.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...o-protect-him/

It's a complicated issue. There are responsible, trained owners who should be allowed to have guns. There are people who should never be allowed to have a gun whether because of criminal record, mental health, lack of training or lack of ethics/judgement .... and yet anyone can walk into any Wallmart and get one with extended ammo clip.

We ask more to get a drivers license than to get a gun. Both can take a life.

I have to side with and speak for the people who can't speak; victims of guns. The NRA has a lobby and that's fine. But C.J. can't speak.