my congresswoman was shot today

[Bike Writer]

I refrain from jumping into the political fray out of respect for the dead and wounded in this tragedy, speaking only for myself I would feel like I was cheapening what they suffered. Their senseless deaths and injury deserve acknowledgment that evil exists - always has and always will - but what we must do is ensure that the person who committed this, when found guilty, is never given the opportunity to harm anyone else.

An observation of the discourse that has occurred here is that we are holding politicians on either side of the aisle to a higher standard that we are holding ourselves to. A breakdown in our "mini society" of this forum occurred quicker than a NY minute, tongues lashing, fangs barred, jabs were traded at lightening pace and yet we accuse the politicians, the news media (both the old guard and the new guard), society, talk TV, talk radio, movies, books, music or what have you of creating some kind of societal morass.

Reality shows that it's human nature to do these things. This world is a broken place and it didn’t start last month or 200 years ago, it happened near the beginning. Lest anyone thing that these comments are somehow self-righteous, know this – I am first among sinners.

Now watch the thread get shut down.

[badgercat]

Tonight, a bike vigil started on the U of A campus and processed to the medical center where Giffords and other victims remain hospitalized, to visit the candlelight memorial. An estimated 150 cyclists attended. I was unfortunately unable to go since I had to work, but my boyfriend was there, and said it was pretty amazing. A local cycling blogger we follow has already put out a video from tonight's event:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRxO2nKPlgE

[PamNY]

An observation of the discourse that has occurred here is that we are holding politicians on either side of the aisle to a higher standard that we are holding ourselves to. A breakdown in our "mini society" of this forum occurred quicker than a NY minute, tongues lashing, fangs barred, jabs were traded at lightening pace and yet we accuse the politicians, the news media (both the old guard and the new guard), society, talk TV, talk radio, movies, books, music or what have you of creating some kind of societal morass.

I thought this was a very civilized discussion. Were some posts removed?

[snapdragen]

I thought this was a very civilized discussion. Were some posts removed?

Nope, none that I'm aware of.

[KnottedYet]

A breakdown in our "mini society" of this forum occurred quicker than a NY minute, tongues lashing, fangs barred, jabs were traded at lightening pace

????

I also think this has been a very civilized discussion.

People have policed themselves.

People have apologized for things said in the heat of the moment.

People have taken each others points into consideration, and written further on each other's points.

An observation of the discourse that has occurred here is that we are holding politicians on either side of the aisle to a higher standard that we are holding ourselves to.

You bet yer sweet bippy we hold them to a higher standard! If they want to be leaders, then they must LEAD. They MUST set a higher standard. That's the point to being a leader!

(First I was in despair because it appears no-one studies theology anymore. How about ethics? Philosophy? Political science? Are our finest minds just marinating in set-plot romance novels these days? {not that I'm disparaging folks who write or read romance novels, I know several fine authors who've had to write romance novels during lean times, and one can be surprisingly creative and subversive within the strict plot outlines the publishers give you! There has been food on my table because of those cheap little books.})

[Crankin]

I most certainly have policed myself in this discussion. Mostly, because I don't want to be seen as bashing someone with a different point of view. Still, I am looking wistfully back at the sixties and seventies, when I felt like I had the power of a lot of people behind my own beliefs and actions.
You have heard me mention my relatives who are super right wing conservatives. I actually highly respect my cousin, who is probably the most right wing of them, because he is intelligent, articulate, and lives his beliefs. I just can't go along with having guns in the house with 2 teenagers and a child, or him thinking he can take away my right to choose. I cannot, however, respect my aunt, who just parrots the views she hears on talk radio and the half understood ideas she gets from her children.
In the last month I happened to look at the comments below a couple of news articles on Yahoo. I could not believe the vehemence spewed in the comments (all from the right wing view point). I won't look at that stuff anymore, but it made me glad to be in my bluest of blue state bubble. Frankly, we saw the writing on the wall in 1990, with regard to politics in AZ, and it played a significant role in our decision to move. I gave up a very nice life that took me years to recover, so I could bring my kids up in the same atmosphere I grew up in.

[KnottedYet]

One of the weirdest things I came across in the news articles is that someone already checked Daniel Hernandez Jr.'s immigration status. (He's a naturalized US citizen from Mexico)

Obviously the young man is Latino, but was it really necessary to run his immigration papers? Did someone have the thought, "I wonder if Gabrielle Giffords hired an illegal immigrant for her intern?"

[maillotpois]

This is, I think, one of the best discussions of the event: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...n?xrs=share_fb

Did the toxic political environment cause this...? I have no f-ing idea. We live in a complex ecosystem of influences and motivations and I wouldn't blame our political rhetoric any more than I would blame heavy metal music for Columbine. And, by the way, that is coming from someone that truly hates our political environment. It is toxic. It is unproductive. But to say that is what has caused this, or that the people in that are responsible for this I just don't think you can do.

Boy would it be nice to be able to draw a straight line of causation from this horror to something tangible because then we can convince ourselves that if we just stop this the horrors will end. To have the feeling, however fleeting, that this type of event can be prevented forever. But it's hard not to feel like it can't.

You cannot outsmart crazy. You don't know what a troubled mind will get caught on.

He goes on to encourage growth and more positive discourse, and the overall message was quite moving.

[snapdragen]

This is, I think, one of the best discussions of the event: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...n?xrs=share_fb





He goes on to encourage growth and more positive discourse, and the overall message was quite moving.

The Jon Stewart commentary was awesome.

[Veronica]

I really like Jon Stewart. His very real outrage at the inability to get legislation passed to benefit 9/11 responders was so genuine.

And that's the kind of crap that frustrates me with the right. I am very lucky to be in one of those higher income brackets. (No kids and I married a smart man ) Although at the time he was a lance corporal in the Marines.

Why do we need tax breaks? Is there something I'm missing?

Maybe I feel this way because we didn't always have money. The welfare my mother received enabled me to become the person I am today. Maybe people who have always had money, don't "get it."

Veronica

[badgercat]

More coverage of last night's bike vigil, including photos, and the video I posted last night: http://tucsonvelo.com/news/sights-an...g-victims/5372

As someone who lives in Tucson, I can say that us average folks aren't overanalyzing the situation re: whether rhetoric did or didn't contribute, etc. The guy had real problems, and as Jon Stewart said in the monologue that's been referenced in the last few posts, you can't always outsmart crazy. We're looking for ways to heal and move on. And so far, two posts I've made about just that (about visiting the memorial at her office the other day, and the bike vigil last night) have been all but ignored because folks are wrapped up in the discussion on politics (or are discussing how they weren't actually arguing about politics, or whatever). Just sayin'... let's try to move on and look at the good things that are happening here now.

[PamNY]

And so far, two posts I've made about just that (about visiting the memorial at her office the other day, and the bike vigil last night) have been all but ignored because folks are wrapped up in the discussion on politics (or are discussing how they weren't actually arguing about politics, or whatever). Just sayin'... let's try to move on and look at the good things that are happening here now.

The photos are very moving, and I have paid careful attention to your posts, even though I didn't respond. I do appreciate having some knowledge of what's going on locally.

I'm glad to hear that positive and visible things are happening in your area. The smallest things helped me so much after 9/11; the Red Cross put children's drawing on the barricades near my building. I wish I knew the child who wrote "I wish this didn't happen." He or she pretty much summed it up.

[maillotpois]

Why do we need tax breaks? Is there something I'm missing?

Maybe I feel this way because we didn't always have money. The welfare my mother received enabled me to become the person I am today. Maybe people who have always had money, don't "get it."

Veronica

This is a drift, but I agree - and I don't necessarily think it's just because of your background that you feel that way. I was solid middle class my whole life and I feel the same way.

[Crankin]

BagerCat, from what I can see, Tucson is handling the situation admirably. And I think the mental health issues are the ones that need discussing more than anything else.
Yes, this is a bit off topic. V, it's true that a lot of people, if they've never been without, don't understand what it feels like to be disenfranchised. But, it's easy to generalize about this, like anything else. I grew up solidly upper middle class, and I am just really grateful for the values my parents instilled in me. Then, when the shoe industry left New England, my family's money went with it. Thankfully, my grandparents pitched in, and I was not far from being out on my own. But, my poor brother, who is 11 years younger was sorely affected by the change in status.
Tax breaks? I don't ever think about that. DH and I have worked for whatever we have and if people have an issue with that, so be it. But, I still have the same values I had when I was young and struggling.