Former Astronaut Dies After Cycling Accident

[kmehrzad]

When is this madness going to end?

http://celebs.gather.com/viewArticle...81474978491821

A local child killed during a cycling accident this week - http://wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=2040428

There HAS TO BE better education and stricter laws about this kind of thing ... how many cyclists have to die before something is done to protect us?

First thing to tackle is disabling texting capability in cell phones while in a moving vehicle.

[uforgot]

I think Bill Lenoir just fell off of his bike. I don't think there was anyone else involved was there? That's what I heard, anyway.

[Veronica]

I don't see anything in either article that indicates a driver was at fault.

Children do dumb, unpredictable things and it's just as likely the child was at fault as the driver. That doesn't make it less tragic for anyone involved. I've had teenagers deliberately jump out in front of me. And I've had kids deliberately ride, weaving their way down the middle of the road, just for the hell of it, because it amused them to make it so I could not safely pass.

The other article says the guy fell off his bike.

Motorists are not inherently evil and I believe most accidents are truly that.

Veronica

[channlluv]

Yes, the article said he was out building bike paths when he fell. There was no mention of a car being involved. And the other article about the little girl who was hit in the crosswalk said the driver was a man in his 80s. No mention of texting or anything going on. Maybe you were referring to a different article. There were a lot of accident report links on that WTOP site.

Although I do agree that there should be some kind of international PSA about safer driving and watching out for cyclists. Maybe one like that motorcycle PSA that has the car driver stopping and looking before turning left, and out of nowhere this motorcyclist slams into the driver side door. "How long do you have to look for a motorcycle?" or something like that.

Roxy

[kmehrzad]

I heard a different take on the incident with the little girl ... her sisters made it across the road, she didn't and the 80 yr. old driver didn't see her, etc.

Regarding texting, that's my hot button. How many times have you ridden alongside someone and seen them texting on their phones? Scares the living daylights out of me when I think one quick second is all it takes for them to be looking down and not see a pedestrian, cyclist, whomever. They're certainly not concentrating on the road or their surroundings.

[salsabike]

I
Motorists are not inherently evil and I believe most accidents are truly that.

Veronica

Glad to see I'm not totally alone in this point of view!

[Veronica]

Regarding texting, that's my hot button. How many times have you ridden alongside someone and seen them texting on their phones? Scares the living daylights out of me when I think one quick second is all it takes for them to be looking down and not see a pedestrian, cyclist, whomever. They're certainly not concentrating on the road or their surroundings.

How about changing the radio station or eating, or having a conversation with your passengers? All those can cause a moment's inattention. Cyclists can have moments of inattention too.

I just hate the assumption that the driver MUST be at fault in every accident involving a cyclist and MUST be punished in some horrific way.

Veronica

[crazycanuck]

Roxy-There are safety commericals here in Western Australia regarding inattentive drivers-One shows a mother trying to calm her fighting with her children in the vehicle & she runs into a motorbike. The other has a man looking at a map & he runs into a large vehicle.

If i can locate the link, i'll post it.

[jessmarimba]

I was driving yesterday and stopped at a 4-way stop - a cyclist with no helmet wearing headphones saw me stop and decided to speed up and turn left (in front of me) without stopping or signaling. Grr. And I try to be so overly accommodating to cyclists...usually...but I leaned out the window and yelled at this guy. At least I went with the assumption that he probably wouldn't stop so I hadn't already started out of the intersection. One life saved, for now.

[jobob]

Glad to see I'm not totally alone in this point of view!

You are most certainly not.

[DebSP]

I saw the US Federal Government. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration statistics for 2005: 39,189 fatalities in car accidents, 4,881 were pedestrians, 784 were cyclists and the rest were either passengers or drivers or in the "other" category. I just wish that our roads were safer for all users. That everyone paid a little more attention and showed a little respect. Yes roads were designed for motor vehicles but not exclusively! And a related thought, I ride more rural roads. When cars squeeze by me in the no passing zones, I often think what would they do if I was a tractor pulling a hay wagon with a slow moving sign.

[OakLeaf]

How about changing the radio station or eating, or having a conversation with your passengers? All those can cause a moment's inattention. Cyclists can have moments of inattention too.

I just hate the assumption that the driver MUST be at fault in every accident involving a cyclist and MUST be punished in some horrific way.

Veronica

There's a difference between a moment's inattention, vs. deliberately choosing to remove your attention from the road.

No, the automobile driver isn't always at fault, but as a general rule, people who risk killing someone ELSE when they deliberately don't pay attention (automobile drivers) choose to pay less attention than people who risk DYING when they have even a moment of inattention (motorcyclists, bicyclists and pedestrians).

You want to know what I think? I think no one should be allowed to operate a four-wheeled vehicle until they've had a motorcycle license for five years.

And I don't think there's any excuse for changing the radio station or eating, either, even though those are CHOICES (not lapses) to take attention away from the road momentarily, whereas talking on the phone and texting are CHOICES to take attention off the road for an EXTENDED period of time. It's no different from the CHOICE to get behind the wheel after a "couple of beers" or more.

An automobile or truck is a lethal weapon. Operators should be held to a HIGHER standard than the operators of firearms, since negligent operation of a firearm is most likely to result in a non-lethal injury, if any, to a single person. The "line of fire" even of a shotgun is a fairly small area compared to the front or side of an automobile that's out of control. You don't hear about someone "accidentally" killing half a dozen people with a firearm at a farmers' market.

[Veronica]

There's a difference between a moment's inattention, vs. deliberately choosing to remove your attention from the road.

But how many of these accidents are caused by that deliberate choice? Certainly not the two in the original post. Cyclists, as a group, seem to use every accident as an excuse to vilify motorists and further their own agenda, whether or not the event fits.


Veronica

[OakLeaf]

But how many of these accidents are caused by that deliberate choice? Certainly not the two in the original post.

Nothing "certain" about the little girl. Maybe it was her LEGAL fault, maybe it wasn't. The story doesn't say.

I think most, to the tune of 90%+, so-called "accidents" are caused by that deliberate choice, and I'll include at least half of single-vehicle two-wheeler "accidents" in that enumeration also. The choice is to take their attention off the road. What they choose to do with their attention instead is secondary, IMO.

They wouldn't even pick up the phone, or the hamburger, or the iPod, or whatever, if they thought that they had even a little responsibility for the deadly machine they're operating.

There are a few things that are unavoidable. An odd draft of wind blows something into your properly protected eye. A vehicle in the oncoming lane hits a pebble or piece of hardware and pops it into you, even though you're properly positioned in your lane. A stinging insect flies into your jersey.

Most so-called "accidents" are not the result of something like that.

I'm not saying I'm perfect. In my lifetime I've made very bad choices behind the wheel and behind the handlebars. Thank God none of them have been disastrous, for me or for anyone else. But I'm not so arrogant as to say that I shouldn't have been punished for them, or to suggest that I have some God-given right to live in a place that requires me to operate a vehicle because would be a full day's walk to town and back.

[Veronica]

Nothing "certain" about the little girl. Maybe it was her LEGAL fault, maybe it wasn't. The story doesn't say.

That's my point. I'm not arguing against whether or not the person at fault should be punished or how. My issue is the use of news articles to whip up a furor for or against a cause when there is nothing to back you up and the assumptions that get made based on the article.

The OP went into a rant about texting. There's nothing in either story about texting. I agree texting while driving is stupid, irresponsible and dangerous. BUT there's nothing about texting here.

Veronica