Understated Club ride descriptions

[DarcyInOregon]

What I really hate is doing an event ride that was described as "flat to gently rolling hills" and the terrain is anything but flat to rolling. I know the terrain in my own region, but when I travel to another state to do an event, I am dependent upon the route description as I am not familiar with the region. When I end up having 5,000 feet or more of elevation gain, with miles of climbing that include grades that are 6-10% or higher, I do not consider the route to be flat to rolling. I finally concluded that the descriptions are written by Alpha male racing cyclists who perceive anything less than a 15% grade to be "flat." So unless the route is in Florida, I will never believe a description again that says "flat to rolling." I like a challenging ride, but I plan my riding schedule around the event rides, and it sure messes up the plan to do miles of climbing when I expected flat to rolling.

Maybe there is a list of terminology somewhere on the internet with an accurate description for commonly used words to describe a route, but I haven't found it. Like in this forum, when someone says they are having a hard time climbing a "steep hill", what are they referring to? Is the distance 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile or 1 mile or longer? Is the grade 3%, 5%, 8%, 12% or higher? One person might consider a steep hill to be 1/4 mile at 3% and another cyclist considers steep to be over 1/2 mile and at least 9%, so it would help if there was an accurate description for what is "steep."

I would really like warning of the more significant difficult parts of a route in the route description. For example, if at mile 64 there is a one mile climb where the grade fluctuates between 16 and 19%, cyclists can't tell it is that steep by eyeballing the hill, they go up it and then it is a mad scramble to try to unclip on a sharp grade with motorists whizzing by and no flat driveways to turn into, it just seems to me to be common sense to put it in the route description.

[oxysback]

Ditto, Darcy! By the way...did you do the Vine Ride today? Hats off to you if you did. Hot and windy!

[DarcyInOregon]

Ditto, Darcy! By the way...did you do the Vine Ride today? Hats off to you if you did. Hot and windy!

The Vine Ride is on the 21st, thank goodness, and I think the temperatures will be down into the low 70s by then. I can't seem to tolerate the heat anymore when I bike. I did too many rides in July, two of them in extreme heat conditions, and something happened to my body and I still haven't recovered, especially my right leg where I got severe muscle cramps on one ride. If the Vine Ride had been today, I would have gone out as soon as the volunteers showed up with the registration packets, around 6 a.m., so as to get my event tee and done the 35-mile loop. If the temperatures are normal on the 21st I will probably do the 75-mile metric, and not the century; if the temperatures are still hot, I will do the 35-mile loop, but still leave as close to 6 a.m as possible.

On the whole steepness thing (responding to other posts), I realize it is regional and probably alititude is a factor also, but there must be some sort of analysis somewhere that states what a cyclist is capable of achieving at specific levels of fitness. Even on the Tour de France, they show that the peleton will do a 12-mile climb at a 10% grade for example. I know for myself, the two factors are distance of the hill and the grade of the hill, in other words I can get up a steep 17% if it is only 1/8 mile, but if it goes over 1/4 mile I am down in my granny and praying. When I was new to climbing, 7-9% was a struggle, now it is normal, but yet if I go more than a mile of continuous 7-9% I am thinking not-very-nice thoughts.

A few months ago I was out on a ride and a female triathlete pulls up on my left. We cycle along together for a few miles, chitchatting, and she says she is from Colorado. Then she says, "Oregon sure is flat!" Like huh? Oregon has two mountain ranges, how can the terrain be flat?

[JennK13]

Perhaps it's a regional thing Living on the Front Range of the Rocky Mountains in the Denver area of Colorado, our "hills" our others "mountains". If you're west of I25, NO ride is "flat". But, to us locals, it is

[badgercat]

Maybe there is a list of terminology somewhere on the internet with an accurate description for commonly used words to describe a route, but I haven't found it. Like in this forum, when someone says they are having a hard time climbing a "steep hill", what are they referring to? Is the distance 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile or 1 mile or longer? Is the grade 3%, 5%, 8%, 12% or higher? One person might consider a steep hill to be 1/4 mile at 3% and another cyclist considers steep to be over 1/2 mile and at least 9%, so it would help if there was an accurate description for what is "steep."

I hear you, but I think steepness is really in the eye of the beholder--what you're used to riding on. I went on a club ride in a city where I'm living temporarily where people were out of the saddle to climb a hill that wasn't much worse than one I breeze over in my daily commute back home.

My boyfriend and I use http://www.mapmyride.com/ a lot because it provides elevation profiles. Often times, routes for charity rides and club rides will have been loaded in there already and we can know a little better what we're getting into.

[Veronica]

Steep isn't something you can really quantify. It's different for everyone because we're all at different riding abilities. Today I did a 22 mile ride with 3300 feet of climbing. We had ten miles of climbing spread out in three separate climbs with the longest being about six miles. For someone else that could be freakishly steep. The only "steep" part was a little .7 mile jaunt through a neighborhood, with lots of little hills, some with grades of nearly 20%. Because they were so short, I didn't think of them as steep.

Not everyone rides with a unit that will tell percent of grade either. I guess steep means it was a challenging climb or descent for that person.

Veronica

[shootingstar]

Having an elevation profile of the ride route at least gives a general idea.

It will tend to give more objective info. on a 12% or 6% grade. Plus number of hills. Then the person can decide how they perceive it as "steep" or "flat".

Also different jurisdictions have varied engineering design standards for max. grade of their major highways at different points in history. Just ask any civil engineer.

I also think that the quality of the road paving and paving materials has an effect on riding effort and speed. I've been on a newly paved path or 2, where it was abnormal effort to cycle up a false hill that was only 4-5% grade. I can't remember the paving surface, but it was ridiculous.

It was harder than doing a longer 10% climb of higher quality grade paved road.

If one is organizing a group ride, to be fair not to fall into the trap of alpha males who think that anything under 18% is flat. Objective info. is most helpful to all parties for all cycling levels.

[marni]

I always love it when they say this is a "no rider" left behind ride, and they are cleaning up the first/last SAG stop as arrive a bit later than the group because you were only going 17mph instead of 22, and again as the sweep rider whips by you just after the turn around with a "everything good? ok? see you at the end."

I always wonder just exactly "no rider left behind" and "sweep will be the last rider in" mean to other people, especially the organizers- and don't get me started on the distinctions between rollers and gently rolling terrain and gentl rollers. Take it all with a huge grain of salt, sauume the worst and hope for the best I guess.

marni

[Catrin]

I always love it when they say this is a "no rider" left behind ride, and they are cleaning up the first/last SAG stop as arrive a bit later than the group because you were only going 17mph instead of 22, and again as the sweep rider whips by you just after the turn around with a "everything good? ok? see you at the end."

I always wonder just exactly "no rider left behind" and "sweep will be the last rider in" mean to other people, especially the organizers- and don't get me started on the distinctions between rollers and gently rolling terrain and gentl rollers. Take it all with a huge grain of salt, sauume the worst and hope for the best I guess.

marni

I have only been on 4-5 group rides at this point, and they were not billed as "training" rides. Generally speaking there have been quite a few riders, last week there were well over a hundred of us. Right now I am only riding between 13-15 mph outside of climbing, though sometimes I can get my LHT up to 17-18. That is slow - but I can keep it going for hours so am not too unhappy with that. It IS my first year and it is fast enough to finish the October brevet with time for breaks - one assumes I will be faster in two months time

It is good that I like riding alone, because that is what I do on group rides - and that doesn't bother me - I know I am slow. The ride leaders have all been very nice so far, and I've yet to find a closed SAG stop - and in one case they waited some time for me, bless them for doing that

I do not bother with the weekday evening rides. They post what average speed they ride at, and while one of them always says that "no rider will be dropped" I just can't imagine that I am fast enough to not REALLY slow everyone down. As far as hills are concerned - until I find my hill-climbing-beast they are ALL a challenge, so I just take what I find.

[OakLeaf]

I agree that "steep" is in the eye of the beholder, but this is one of those times that I think it would help to put some objective numbers in.

When I traveled to Dallas to do the Lone Star Ride with my sister, not a soul could tell me objectively what the terrain was like. Even my sister, who's ridden in lots of different terrain but really isn't familiar with the places I've ridden, could only tell me, "It's not flat...?" I considered bringing my old bike - just to give her a chance to get ridden. But the reason I don't ride that bike here is that my legs just won't drive the tall gears any more and I didn't want to bring her along and then be miserable at 60 rpm for 175 miles. As it turned out, I would've been fine - I don't think there was anything steeper than 6% or longer than a mile on the whole ride.

Now that the USGS has posted those topo maps though, we don't have to rely so much on ride organizers.

As far as putting the hazardous intersections on the cue sheets, we do that for our ride, and we "CAUTION" the road in advance, but those kinds of things are hard to really understand unless you've done them once before.

[Crankin]

I only ride with a group that I know... it took me a long time to find one that has people like me... not slow enough to be slow and not fast enough to be fast. Now we seem to be splitting into 2 groups, as the original members are getting older (like well into their 60s- 70s) and the young people like me who are in their 50s are faster. Again, I fall somewhere in the middle, but I tend to go out with the fast group on hilly rides (I can keep up better on these kinds of rides) and regular group on flatter/rolling ones. But, the key is that I know if they say it's a "very hilly" ride, I know exactly what they mean.
Just yesterday we were laughing our @sses off at the Trek Travel description of a "moderate" level trip.... 18 miles with 3300 ft. of climbing, 40 miles with 5,000 ft. of climbing! While, I could probably do this, I don't think it's moderate. The trip we did with them 5 years ago had several 12-15% grades, some of which were even challenging for my DH, because of the length. They told us about some of them, but not all. Maybe they think no one will come, if they tell the truth? Just tell me the grade and the length of the climb and let me decide.
And yes, some ride descriptions are definitely written by alpha male racers.

[jenniferh]

Steep isn't something you can really quantify. It's different for everyone because we're all at different riding abilities. Today I did a 22 mile ride with 3300 feet of climbing. We had ten miles of climbing spread out in three separate climbs with the longest being about six miles. For someone else that could be freakishly steep. The only "steep" part was a little .7 mile jaunt through a neighborhood, with lots of little hills, some with grades of nearly 20%. Because they were so short, I didn't think of them as steep.

Not everyone rides with a unit that will tell percent of grade either. I guess steep means it was a challenging climb or descent for that person.

Veronica

omg! Yep, that is freakish to me I live in Houston, TX and our hills are only the little bridges that go over the tiny creeks. To train for the hills in Austin, TX for the MS150 ride my hubby and I go to the soapbox track outside of town where we get a 1-sided hill, but at least it is something that actually goes up. It's all relative. Your hills are my mountains.

[loopybunny]

This isn't an understatement (or a club ride), but my favorite was Lance Armstrong's description of Metcalf Road used in the San Jose Livestrong Challenge.

"I'm not going to lie to you. It's tough. You've been warned."

Ya think? It's 2 miles at up to 14%...

I think the description that threw me off the most was for Levi's GranFondo talking about Graton Road. "It's challenging, but manageable." I should have considered whose words those were. The climb is 2 miles at up to 10%... I didn't make it. I may be ready this year.

[Catrin]

Steep isn't something you can really quantify. It's different for everyone because we're all at different riding abilities. Today I did a 22 mile ride with 3300 feet of climbing. We had ten miles of climbing spread out in three separate climbs with the longest being about six miles. For someone else that could be freakishly steep. The only "steep" part was a little .7 mile jaunt through a neighborhood, with lots of little hills, some with grades of nearly 20%. Because they were so short, I didn't think of them as steep.

Veronica

This sounds like the Alps to me... or my sister's neighborhood in East Tennessee. I guess the point is that "steep" is going to change depending on a person's abilities AND the terrain they are accustomed to.

Thankfully I love challenges, so that helps me to hang in on those hills that I am slowly going up...while everyone passes me on them

Back to my original post on this thread, I know the ride leader who posted that description of the ride, and he has ridden all over the country. So, for him, they probably ARE ripples, bumps, and the very occasional hill...

[indysteel]

What ride is that description for, Catrin? I couldn't find it on CIBA's ride calendar.