Fire on Trails

[chickabonita]

Sorry to hear about your beloved trails. I know just what you are feeling, here in So Cal we have had our fair share of devastating fires. Irulan is right, the land will heal itself in no time. Try to keep your chin up!

[spokewench]

Sorry to hear about your beloved trails. I know just what you are feeling, here in So Cal we have had our fair share of devastating fires. Irulan is right, the land will heal itself in no time. Try to keep your chin up!

This will not heal within my life span! or probably in quite a few life spans. It is just sickening and still spreading.

One good note, some of the evacuees are back in their homes; and my friend was able to go get her truck and drive it out! The trees were burned on three sides of it!

[bmccasland]

It doesn't help that much of the west is a fire based ecology, including Ponderosa Pine forets. But unfortunatly, we (advanced civilization that we are) have supressed fires for much of the past 50+ years, and a frightening amount of fuel has built up. Or when land management agencies try to do control burns, then nearby people complain about the smoke and make demands to their representatives at the state capitols or to Washington that the fire is put out. So the excess fuel continues to build. I'm making generalizations here, not saying this is what happened in the Schultz fire. It also doesn't help that numbnuts don't make certain that their campfires are out COLD before they leave, which I believe was the cause of this fire.

Early photos of the forests of Arizona show the Ponderosa Pines spaced further apart than they are now. The forests were described as "park like". You could drive a wagon between the trees. Try doing that now. So the periodic fires burned the grasses on the ground and some twigs, but didn't get into the crowns.

Other past fire suppression efforts along with over grazing has allowed more shrubs to grow. So there's been a conversion from a grassland habitat to scrub/shrub - which burns hotter! Ever been around a burning manzanita? It's very hot! Again, old photos show more grasses and less pinyon pine/juniper than are present now, or grasses then / manzanita now.

In general a grass fire burns low and fast as there isn't that much to burn. It's considered a "cool" fire, as usually the top layer of soil and the roots aren't scorched. Hotter fires will actually kill the roots of grasses and other plants, as well as sterilizing the top layer of the soil.

Thus endith today's brief lesson on western ecology.

[bcipam]

I spent last week riding the AZ Trail and Rainbow Rim. On Wednesday we went to the Grand Canyon Lodge and the first thing I noticed was the smoke rising up on the other side of the Canyon. Living in Southern California I knew what that meant. Just know that the earth needs fire at times. It is will clear out overgrowth and cause new things to grow. Generally the spring after a fire is spectacular. That said, fire can be sad... loss of lives, habitate, property, animals etc. I pray the fire fighters keep safe and everything is under control shortly.

[Irulan]

It doesn't help that much of the west is a fire based ecology, including Ponderosa Pine forets. But unfortunatly, we (advanced civilization that we are) have supressed fires for much of the past 50+ years, and a frightening amount of fuel has built up. Or when land management agencies try to do control burns, then nearby people complain about the smoke and make demands to their representatives at the state capitols or to Washington that the fire is put out. So the excess fuel continues to build. I'm making generalizations here, not saying this is what happened in the Schultz fire. It also doesn't help that numbnuts don't make certain that their campfires are out COLD before they leave, which I believe was the cause of this fire.

Early photos of the forests of Arizona show the Ponderosa Pines spaced further apart than they are now. The forests were described as "park like". You could drive a wagon between the trees. Try doing that now. So the periodic fires burned the grasses on the ground and some twigs, but didn't get into the crowns.

Other past fire suppression efforts along with over grazing has allowed more shrubs to grow. So there's been a conversion from a grassland habitat to scrub/shrub - which burns hotter! Ever been around a burning manzanita? It's very hot! Again, old photos show more grasses and less pinyon pine/juniper than are present now, or grasses then / manzanita now.

In general a grass fire burns low and fast as there isn't that much to burn. It's considered a "cool" fire, as usually the top layer of soil and the roots aren't scorched. Hotter fires will actually kill the roots of grasses and other plants, as well as sterilizing the top layer of the soil.

Thus endith today's brief lesson on western ecology.

the stats I have read have less than 20 trees per acre.

[katherine]

I went for a run this morning, and wait for it, it RAINED!
For about 10 minutes, but you know we'll take what we can get!

[bcipam]

This will not heal within my life span! or probably in quite a few life spans. It is just sickening and still spreading.

One good note, some of the evacuees are back in their homes; and my friend was able to go get her truck and drive it out! The trees were burned on three sides of it!

I live in an area that in 4 years had 3 bad fires (Windy Ridge, Sierra Peak and Santiago wildfires). You will be surprised how the earth recovers. One of my beloved areas, Limestone Canyon, was totally black and barren in 2007, now it's green and lush and for the past 3 years the wildflowers have been beautiful. The trails are better than ever! Oaks are designed to withstand fire as are many native plants. Again fire is nature's way to do alittle spring cleaning. Take heart, the earth will recover. It's the potential loss of life and property that is saddening.

[katherine]

@ Spoke: Like my partner said, No! Not the Inner Basin! I get a lump in my throat every time I think about Lockett Meadow. It's going to be a sad autumn without the trees changing on the Waterline.

The area where the fire started hasn't burned or been thinned in a very long time, it won't likely recover as quickly as it might have if things had been different, the fire burned pretty hot from what I hear. It'll also depend on when the monson rains hit, we get dramatic summer rains and there will likely be some erosion. The area a lot of people are worried about now is known for its beautiful aspen groves, old lovely trees that are luckily slowing the fire, but it may take a very long time for them to recover fully. It's hard to explain how emotionally attached we all are to these mountains.

The good news is many of our trails have so far been spared, it's really miraculous. And due in no small part to the tireless efforts of those fighting the fire.

But, it's really warm today, and the winds are picking up again.

[spokewench]

Yes, the underbrush will come back; but we are talking catastrophic fire here; not burning out the underbrush; these are huge crown fires; with fire suppression for years. Trust me, the north side of Elden burned in '72 and there are still NO ponderosas on that burned out side of the mountain; it is really steep and rugged and not conducive to coming back any time soon.