Surly Love

[OakLeaf]

Two different things. 170 on the Sora is the crankarm length. 110 on the Andel is bolt center distance - the mounting size of your chainrings. You didn't specify how long the Andel cranks are.

[Catrin]

Two different things. 170 on the Sora is the crankarm length. 110 on the Andel is bolt center distance - the mounting size of your chainrings. You didn't specify how long the Andel cranks are.

All the info I have on the Andel is from the Surly site, I will see what I can find out... Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it.

I do appreciate the advice and dose of reality - that is why I brought it here in the first place. I KNOW me when I really want something - which is another reason for the enforced waiting period... It might cost more later to upgrade some of the components, but there is also the point that I would better understand what I am doing. Perhaps by then I would be able to do at least some of the work...

Enforced waiting periods are good

At this point I am strongly leaning to the Complete LHT with upgraded bars/saddle. That leaves more money for accessories and bike clothes

[eofelis]

My opinion, which is worth nothing: buy the Complete. Change the saddle and bars (and get the rebate from "selling back" the bars and saddle the bike came with). Ride lots.

My dose of cruel reality, also worth nothing: you don't have much experience. You are only just learning to ride a bike. Trust Surly to provide a good stock set up. Save your money. Don't trust your fitter farther than you can throw him. Ride lots. Customize after.

Trust all the Surly mavens on this site. We wouldn't steer you wrong. We believe in these bikes and we ride these bikes.)

Yeah, what she said.

The wheels and the drive train on the complete will be fine for quite a while.
Ride lots now. Upgrade later.

[KnottedYet]

The crank length on the 46 cm Complete LHT is 165mm.

Your fitter says you'd be better off with a 170mm. (which is typical for a woman. We have longer femurs than men, and so need longer crank arms than men of similar size to achieve correct KOPS)

HOWEVER: 5mm is pretty damm small, and well within the realm of cleat positioning for cleated pedals (aka "clipless") or foot positioning for platform pedals, or even shifting the saddle for long-armed riders.

Your fitter is pissing me off. If he can't cope with 5mm difference with a new rider who doesn't yet know her preferences, and within a newbie budget; then I want his job.

ETA: I'm 5'8", with 33 inch inseams. My Surly CC 52cm has 170mm cranks, stock. I'm happiest with 175mm cranks with my cleated bike (Waterford). I have platform pedals on my CC so naturally move my feet to the optimal position for my power output relative to KOPS. No problem. I truly believe you would have no problem with 165mm cranks.

[moderncyclista]

BCD is not the length of the crank arms.

My opinion, which is worth nothing: buy the Complete. Change the saddle and bars (and get the rebate from "selling back" the bars and saddle the bike came with). Ride lots.

My dose of cruel reality, also worth nothing: you don't have much experience. You are only just learning to ride a bike. Trust Surly to provide a good stock set up. Save your money. Don't trust your fitter farther than you can throw him. Ride lots. Customize after.

-Knot: is a fitter, isn't a wrench.

(I'm so serious. What is a upgrade for one person, is a P.O.S. for another. You really need to ride a whole bunch before you know what is an upgrade FOR YOU. Buy stock. Surly is good stuff. It is designed deliberately to be compatible with a gazillion options. You and the bike will grow together. Trust all the Surly mavens on this site. We wouldn't steer you wrong. We believe in these bikes and we ride these bikes.)

To KnottedYet:
Chica. Thank you for expressing my feelings exactly.

To Caitrin: the stock gearing is better for general riding and commuting. The "special build" gearing is higher with bigger chain rings. Good for speed and training, but not quite as good if your a beginning rider. You'd be happier, in my opinion going with the "stock LHT" build and upgrading bars (shouldn't be too expensive) and saddle (brooks B-17 is a great choice). Be careful with crank arm length as the LHT has a lower bottom bracket (like touring bikes do) you don't want your crank arms to be too long on a smaller frame.

Peace, Love, & Bicycles.

[Catrin]

To KnottedYet:
Chica. Thank you for expressing my feelings exactly.

To Caitrin: the stock gearing is better for general riding and commuting. The "special build" gearing is higher with bigger chain rings. Good for speed and training, but not quite as good if your a beginning rider. You'd be happier, in my opinion going with the "stock LHT" build and upgrading bars (shouldn't be too expensive) and saddle (brooks B-17 is a great choice). Be careful with crank arm length as the LHT has a lower bottom bracket (like touring bikes do) you don't want your crank arms to be too long on a smaller frame.

Peace, Love, & Bicycles.

Good information on the custom build gearing. I had already started leaning in this direction before KnottedYet spoke up, and both of you have only confirmed what I was thinking. I do like the bars he selected. I found one here - though will have to get used to this style and the bar-end shifters

http://www.bikeman.com/HB9776.html

I cannot find any information on the crank arm length on the Andel crankset - even on the Andel website - but that is the stock Surly part so there will be no problem from that direction.

I've sent a request to my fitter/builder for a quote on the Complete blue LHT with upgraded bars/saddle - though I have an idea what that should be

[Cataboo]

If he's putting you on sora cranks & also a tiagra front derailleur... just go with the stock long haul trucker. The custom build doesn't seem to be upgrading your components much (or at all...)

As for crank length - I'd say use the 165 mm cranks. You'll be fine. Shorter cranks are a bit easier to spin, harder to mash with. And they're gentler on your knees.

I'm 5'1 and have changed all my bikes to 165 mm. My knees feel 170 cranks a bit more.

[Blueberry]

Good information on the custom build gearing. I had already started leaning in this direction before KnottedYet spoke up, and both of you have only confirmed what I was thinking. I do like the bars he selected. I found one here - though will have to get used to this style and the bar-end shifters

http://www.bikeman.com/HB9776.html

I cannot find any information on the crank arm length on the Andel crankset - even on the Andel website - but that is the stock Surly part so there will be no problem from that direction.

I've sent a request to my fitter/builder for a quote on the Complete blue LHT with upgraded bars/saddle - though I have an idea what that should be

An added bonus is you get the color you want These ladies are wise - listen to them

[KnottedYet]

I cannot find any information on the crank arm length on the Andel crankset - even on the Andel website - but that is the stock Surly part so there will be no problem from that direction.

It's listed on the Surly LHT page. 165 mm for the 46cm bike. Andel makes several sizes. All component brands make several sizes. The size chosen by Surly for the 46cm LHT is 165mm.

[Catrin]

An added bonus is you get the color you want These ladies are wise - listen to them

Yes, a blue LHT is in my future - I can see it now When I ask advice from people who know a lot more about something than I do - I do listen

[KnottedYet]

I do like the bars he selected. I found one here - though will have to get used to this style and the bar-end shifters

http://www.bikeman.com/HB9776.html

<gentle sigh>
Please tell me he didn't recommend the 40cm bars you linked.
The LHT already comes with 40cm bars. Why pay more? If this is the first pair of drops you've ridden, why change?

In all likelihood, you need narrower bars anyway. Women tend to have narrower shoulders than men of similar size.

Buy the stock. If it seems too wide (pain in between the shoulders and up into neck) then go to an LBS and have someone measure you for bar width. Buy a pair of Salsa Poco or Short and Shallow, sell back the stock, and ride on!

(I'm riding 38cm bars, and I'm 5'8" with wide shoulders. Wide shoulders. It's hard to find women's shirts that fit.)

[Catrin]

<gentle sigh>
Please tell me he didn't recommend the 40cm bars you linked.
The LHT already comes with 40cm bars. Why pay more? If this is the first pair of drops you've ridden, why change?

In all likelihood, you need narrower bars anyway. Women tend to have narrower shoulders than men of similar size.

Buy the stock. If it seems too wide (pain in between the shoulders and up into neck) then go to an LBS and have someone measure you for bar width. Buy a pair of Salsa Poco or Short and Shallow, sell back the stock, and ride on!

(I'm riding 38cm bars, and I'm 5'8" with wide shoulders. Wide shoulders. It's hard to find women's shirts that fit.)

Ummmm...what I linked to are the bars he recommended
I am glad that I brought this here...

[KnottedYet]

Well, don't base your decisions on my ranting and raving. I'm quite opinionated.

But I also specialize in women's bike fits, I get paid to be opinionated!

Perhaps you should just buy the complete, and get the Brooks B17 saddle of your dreams from www.wallbike.com If you decide the B17 doesn't suit you within 6 months of purchase, you can send it back for full refund. Will your LBS give you a full refund within 6 months?

Ride, ride, ride. That's the best way to learn what you need most.

[Catrin]

Well, don't base your decisions on my ranting and raving. I'm quite opinionated.

But I also specialize in women's bike fits, I get paid to be opinionated!

Perhaps you should just buy the complete, and get the Brooks B17 saddle of your dreams from www.wallbike.com If you decide the B17 doesn't suit you within 6 months of purchase, you can send it back for full refund. Will your LBS give you a full refund within 6 months?

Ride, ride, ride. That's the best way to learn what you need most.

LOL, as I said, I was already starting to lean this direction before you spoke up, including the wallbike.com purchase for the saddle. Certainly no LBS will give me a 6-month refund period. I will pay $30 more for the saddle this way - but the refund period is attractive.

Obviously it is in the fitter/builders best interest to sell me a custom build, whether he can provide a true upgrade in the budget given or not... It is in my best interest to learn what I can, and to get advice where I can

[OakLeaf]

OTOH... I'm probably Catrin's same size or maybe a little bigger, and I absolutely need crankarms no longer than 165 mm (can't even ride 167.5) and handlebars no narrower than 40 cm...

Everyone's different.

But it does sound like the stock bike would be fine for you...