Moms, childhood issues, and certified letters

[Biciclista]

I think these are words of wisdom.

yeah, really.

[bacarver]

This forum helps us feel less alone.

My mother has depressive personality disorder. She was always dreary, negative, sarcastic, and critical when I was growing up. My parents parted when I was 6. She still carries her black cloud with her everywhere. There is no humor in her world.

Those with personality disorders tend to play games, and people get sucked in to the chaos.

I would encourage you to save all "evidence" rather than avoiding, throwing away, or discarding. This is up to you. I feel that there will be a time when I need to prove to some people that I wasn't the problem.

My mother couldn't handle it when I found the man I planned to marry
(1989). She started a campaign to destroy me and it got ugly and stayed that way for 3 years. I was a shell of a human by that point and had to make a hard decision to walk away from her. She recruited my brother to take her side and he rejected me also. I have struggled for almost 20 years to live with this. It has gotten easier as I've gotten older. My perspective is healthier. My mom and brother should not have the power to take my time on this earth away from me.

I have tried to write to my mother and brother. She refused to respond. My brother set a trap for me and hurt me deeply when I realized he was just getting information to pass on to her.

The years of blaming myself have been hard. Families are supposed to be loving and supportive. My father is a schizophrenic/alcoholic. I got a crappy deal all around.

There are others out there who have similar situations. I intend to survive this and to be free of the self-blame that steals my joy. I have a good husband and my life is what I make it.

I'm sorry you are going through this. It's not the way a mother-daughter relationship should be.

Barb

[bmccasland]

Thanks everyone... I'm still mulling things over. For the next two days it's a moot point, as monday is a federal holiday, and tuesday is a local holiday - MARDI GRAS! This city is in full party mode, no mail delivery or open post offices until wednesday.

But I think that if she can't ask me directly, then I'm not going to play the game. She always was a passive-agressive one. She's the one I've learned it from, and over the years, I've learned to be more direct, less fustration in the long run.

sigh

[malkin]

But let me offer this: People whose issues with their parents are minimal, won't have anything useful from their own experience to offer you. People whose issues with their parents are significant, will have too much of an overlay from their own experience to have anything useful to offer you.
(

I'm in the second group, so all I can do is send is my best wishes to you.

[TrekTheKaty]

Yes, that is the important message. We want you to know you are not alone. And take care of #1 (yourself) first. As women, we tend to not do that. I send happy thoughts your way for Mardi Gras

[sgtiger]

((((((Beth))))))

I want to add my support. And whatever you choose to do I hope you honor yourself first.

I too have a complicated relationship with my mother, so I can understand the uncertainty and hesitation of engaging in a situation that may bring up unpleasant and painful memories. Personally I deal better with people who I can clearly see are trying to be a better person now than someone who constantly brings up the past to apologize or explain it away. For me, somehow, it feels like they are trying to trivialize the helplessness and hurt I experienced as a child, especially if their actions have not truly changed.

Soo

[MartianDestiny]

Withm,

I have to voice some respectful disagreement with your post. Words and sentiments like these spoken to me in person (as I did not discuss anything on the internet when all of this was occurring to me) really added a lot of pain and heartache to what was already a very gutwrenching, life altering, and exceptionally painful drawn out decision process. And, yes, added to bouts of depression and even occasional suicidal thoughts that I was luckily able to (in time, and with the help of some very close friends) overcome (and not act on). Similar sentiments made me keep working at an emotionally abusive, manipulative relationship longer than I probably would have otherwise (after all she was/is "my mother" and I couldn't possibly just erase her from my life without being a horrible, rotten, ungrateful child). (and let me reiterate that this was a very painful process for me that took YEARS of consideration, attempts at a relationship (on any level), realization that I was indeed NOT a horrible person, etc. none of which was ever taken lightly; I most certainly didn't get angry with her in one conversation and walk off in a huff never to speak with her again.)

Yes, parents will always be our parents, and we can't change that "like it or not". That doesn't mean one is obligated to bend to their every whim, need, objection to one's life, or other quark; especially not at the expense of their own mental (and sometimes unfortunately physical) health. More obligated to put forth an effort than if they were some random person you met once, of course. I don't think anyone takes damaging, ending, or ignoring a relationship with their parent(s) lightly or really needs to be reminded that the person is indeed their parent and thus should be of more importance than a street acquaintance.

The implications demonize the victim/child, as if they clearly are not trying hard enough to maintain the relationship. I felt this guilt for a long time. I would have felt guilty/horrible on some level anyway, but conversations with outsiders (whom I would consider my friends as I didn't go telling my woes to people I hardly knew) certainly made things worse and elongated the learning to live with the reality of the situation even though they had no idea or no way to comprehend the situation, really.

Being "used to" something does not make it healthy for you. "Just words" can often be exceptionally hurtful and emotionally abusive. No one truly becomes "immune" to such things.

Sometimes (not always, of course) people do need to just leave situations behind them when it becomes evident that things will not change. Sometimes "running away" is more like being driven away, etc. Sometimes completely leaving a situation and/or person is the only way to get them/it to STOP controlling your life.

Do I sometimes think about the situation with a twinge of sadness, yes, especially when I hear similar stories or around mother's day. Do I regret my decision; absolutely not. I feel like I made every reasonable effort that could have been made and in the end I did what I had to do to preserve my sanity. Without a doubt I am a happier more healthy person today than I would have been otherwise. And I'm living a life I want to, rather than being controlled and manipulated by someone else.

Clearly not every situation will parallel mine (probably no situation will, some being much worse, some much less severe, and some just different) and many relationships probably can (and should) be saved in some form or another. But to speak in absolutes, to assert that a relationship must/should be maintained, that one should continue to subject them-self to situations that are hurtful to them (even if that situation is words on a page), and to imply that one should be "used to" or "immune" to emotionally abusive and manipulative behavior (intentional or stemming from a documented disorder) simply because the other person is a parent is nothing more than naiveté and, well intentioned as it may be (because I'm sure everything you wrote was very much well intentioned), can add to emotional turmoil, guilt, and depression in people going through these situations.

I'm certainly not advocating that Bmc break all ties with her mom, or even assuming that her relationship with her mom is emotionally abusive (only that it seems evident that the relationship is very hard on her emotionally for whatever reason). But really only Bmc is in a position to understand her relationship, what the issues are, what the intentions are (which ended up being a very big deciding factor for me, personally), and what is the best compromise for her (because most of the time it's a lose-lose situation). Just because one party is a parent doesn't make anything any more cut and dry. In the end we can only offer her a virtual shoulder to lean on. Advice, well, I think Oakleaf said it best. And yes, professional counseling, if feasible, is definitely a path to consider (either on a longer term basis or just a few sessions).

And please, withm, let me reiterate that I in no way believe that you intended anything other than to be helpful, as my friends intended as well. And maybe, being emotionally completely on the other side of this, I'm seeing something more and this will be more helpful than hurtful to Bmc. I hope so as I hope everyone can struggle through and in the end come out with more ideal results than I did. Sure did tug at some painful memories for me though.

Anyway, this has been exceptionally long winded, and I apologize. Just felt the need to voice what the view from "the other side of the street" *can* be.

[colby]

I know we all come from different situations, but I see elements of my own life in these, and I appreciate hearing how other people cope. I love this forum.

[Cataboo]

I'd also disagree that running away is somehow letting someone continue to control your life. And that somehow if you're used to someone treating you like ****, you become used to it and immune and that it's okay to be treated like ****. By that logic, all women who are getting beaten by their husbands should just stay in their marriages.

Yes, families are difficult... and as much as possible, people should try to work everything out and do what they can. But the reality is, that sometimes people just suck and just because they're related to you by an accident of birth and genetics and you love them, doesn't mean that you have to keep them in your life or that it's healthy to do so. The fact that someone is related to you doesn't mean they get a pass on their behavior. It does mean you forgive them for more and give them more chances, but at some point, enough is enough.

I could go into details, but hey, I use my real name on the internet

[Selkie]

I wouldn't characterize it as "running away." I think it's more "running to" something more positive and healthy.

The great thing is that we are adults and have choices. That includes the choice to do the right thing for oneself.

[Crankin]

I agree with Martian Destiny. Just because someone is your mother (insert any family member here), doesn't mean you are beholden to endure whatever **** they give you.
As a disclaimer, I will say that my relationship with my parents was good. My mom died almost 15 years ago. I miss her, but, life goes on. I talk to my dad, who lives in CA, but it's not a super close relationship. That's nothing new.
But, I do have some experience with "divorcing" a relative. I "divorced" my aunt (my mom's sister). She always has been the drama queen in my family, with some definite underlying mental health issues. When her DH died at age 52, she pretty much declared her life was over, and took it as a signal to run everyone else's life. This occurred right at the time I moved back here. I was able to be firm with boundaries, and still be with my family for holidays, etc. She was too busy trying to run her own kid's lives. When my mom got sick, she thought I was cruel and heartless for not leaving my own family and going to CA indefinitely. My mom specifically did not want me to do that! My aunt interfered with my mom's medical situation, drove my dad and brother crazy, and generally acted crazy when we ignored her.
Over the years, I tried with her, but she only wanted to tell me what to do. When one cousin became super religious and gave my DH crap about not wearing a yarmulke on Passover and I no longer could take the other cousin, who has always been a xenophobic, gun touting, right winger, I stopped calling. It's been a year and a half, and it is better. I feel badly that my kids have lost contact with the few relatives they have, but they witnessed her craziness growing up, so it's in context. Life is too short.

[Catrin]

My mother has long-term, basically untreated, mental health issues as well. This is so hard to deal with, and I think it is difficult for others who do not have that family dynamic to really understand what this means.

I and my sisters have taken decades to learn how to deal with this in a way that does not harm us, yet allows us to find some way to not cut her out of our lives entirely (though we did for some time). We finally came to understand that she raised us the best way that she could, she just didn't have much to work with and that was just the way it was. It took close to 20 years of total separation for me to come to truly understand that - we had a very rough family life...

Understanding that did help the three of us to come up with our own way to remain in contact with her without, however, participating in the dramatic world that she lives in. It does her no good to play her games, and it certainly isn't good for us. She and I will never have a "traditional" mother/daughter relationship - but I have found ways to stay in touch with her that doesn't fire up the old drama.

You will have to make your decision on how to deal with this - though I do like the approach others have suggested about not accepting the letter and telling her that she just needs to tell you what is going on. The whole certified letter approach is adversarial. For your own sake you need to maintain strong boundaries, and it sounds like she doesn't expect you to have any.

Please keep us posted as you can, you are not alone in this.

[kiwibug]

I am so surprised to see how many people grew up with mothers suffering from mental health illnesses.

I felt really really alone growing up. Even within my family, my mom's bipolar disorder was never talked about, and the horrible periods where she went off her meds were major secrets we never discussed. Luckily psychiatric medicine has done a lot for my mother, she's doing really well and our relationship is loving.

I don't know what would have happened if we hadn't got the illness under control. I maintain that unless you have lived with and loved someone with mental illness, you can't possibly understand. Without experiencing it you can't say that you would never run away, or that one shouldn't.

[maillotpois]

I am so surprised to see how many people grew up with mothers suffering from mental health illnesses.

Me, too. I have talked to one other person, a friend who I was surprised to learn had a mother with a lot of similar issues to mine. But it's nice to know I'm not the only one with a mother with issues. (and not just "my mom is a PITA" issues, which I think everyone has from time to time.)

Good luck bmc - you're not alone and ultimately you'll know what the right thing is for you to do.

[arielmoon]

When I was in college my parents got divorced. It was pretty messy and my mom decided I had sided with my dad when he came to me to tell me he wanted leave my mother and I told him I wanted him to be happy. This after hearing how unhappy my mother was since I was about 8. Anywho, my mother was a debutante and she insisted I do it too even though I said I didnt want to for years. It went against things I believed in and I refused to be all cutsie with girls that wouldnt talk to me in high school.

I got a long certified letter telling me what an ungraceful child I was. She listed all the things she did for me- driving me to swim practice and soccer and basketball and so on. The gist of this was that she did all this for me not because she loved me but because she wanted something in return. Well, I didnt speak to her for 5 years after that. Then I decided that life was too short and I just forgave her in my heart. She never apologized but one day she sent me a tape of some uplifting something or other and admitted she made mistakes raising us kids. (My older brother had gotten a similar certified letter and he didnt speak to her for 6 years).

My mother wrecked me mentally as a child to the point that I didnt trust her to tell what was going on in my life. I learned to shut her out when I would hear her telling all her friends what I had confided in her. Going away to boarding school was a blessing for me and I could finally breath. At different times I have been tempted to tell her how hellish she made my childhood but I honestly cant see what good it would do. She did the best she could at the time.

These days she doesnt even attempt to tell me what to do or be manipulative although she tries it on my siblings.

My advice is not to play the game but also be compassionate and forgiving. For whatever reason she is going back to the past to rehash. I think you should let look to the future!