Minarets in Switzerland

[Irulan]

Recommended reading.

Nine Parts of Desire:The Hidden World of Islamic Women by journalist Geraldine Brooks.

Link to Amazon reviews

Ms. Brooks has spent much time in Islamic countries and this is book is the result of being taking into families homes and interviewing Islamic women from many varied aspects of Islamic religion and culture. The stories are of Islamic women, their values and experience, both from the point of view of women who have taken up the veil of their own choice
and women who have moved away from it.

It seems like a lot of the posters here are running their opinions through their own cultural filters, and making what to me are somewhat inappropriate judgments on how other people choose to live their religious life or manage the religious life of their families. Just because you don't like it or don't approve of it, or think it's oppressive, doesn't make it bad or wrong. This could be said in general for any one of differing religious practice or political belief.... I am specifically speaking of wearing the veil or the culture of modesty. It blew my mind to read the interviews of women who have made this choice ( to wear the veil) independently, and why they did it, and why they like it.

back to lurking.

[lph]

Since I'm the one who brought up veils, I'll answer quickly. I have no doubt that I'm running things through my own cultural filters. I have no trouble with grown women choosing to wear veils of their own accord. More power to them. I do have trouble accepting that young girls are pushed to do so once they reach a certain age, and have modesty standards set for them that don't match those of their brothers, even when the country they live in doesn't require it in any way.

I'd like to read that book, it sounds interesting. But otherwise I'll back out quietly from this, I've already brought up more religion than this forum is maybe supposed to harbour Thanks for the calm discussion so far!

[OakLeaf]

As long as you'd be as happy and proud posting a picture on the Internet of your hypothetical 11(?)-year-old daughter shirtless as you were of your son ...

(Who is a great-looking kid and I wasn't offended by seeing him shirtless at all. But you get my point.)

[Tuckervill]

I dunno, I was pretty regularly topless in the swimming pool at 11. And, when all three of my sons were about that age, they didn't really want to go into the pool without a shirt on!

I don't mind seeing children in all states of dress and undress (in a motherly way!), but posting them on the internet (like some of my kids' male friends have pics of themselves on FB and Myspace with no shirts on) just gives the pervs more material than they need.

Karen

[lph]

As long as you'd be as happy and proud posting a picture on the Internet of your hypothetical 11(?)-year-old daughter shirtless as you were of your son ...

(Who is a great-looking kid and I wasn't offended by seeing him shirtless at all. But you get my point.)

Good point, OakLeaf. I do get it, but I don't think it's really a fair comparison. Wearing a top for women is in most countries (unfortunately, I'd say) not a question of choice. And as far as I've understood, wearing a veil is.

[crazycanuck]

Sorry to keep this thread going....I came across this from today's Independent
:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1845103.html

[shootingstar]

Sorry to keep this thread going....I came across this from today's Independent
:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1845103.html

So glad he is speaking out from within the community about what happened to his sister.

I firmly believe real change...comes from within a community. Article also shows real effort by police in U.K. to spot certain things even if there needs to be more reporting.

I also think that honor killing, like other terrible things ie. some Chinese girl babies given away at birth (or worse), to orphanages in China...happens but not as frequently as outsiders think. It's always the minority from within a community, who do the violent, other crap that makes the vast peace-loving majority look guilty/bad, etc.

And I'm glad they photographed the outspoken person who is speaking out against honour killing of his sister, to be someone wearing turban. What a person traditionally wears does not truly define his/her define thoughts, intellect and how to the person lives out their religious beliefs.

While lruan rightfully does say we put our cultural blinders and filters, on a differernt cultural /religious practice, this is my take:

I absolutely acknowledge my cultural filter and as someone who's mother is a picture bride where she never met her husband prior to marriage, I do have a personal opinion what can or cannot work within traditional confines. She was also extremely lucky to have married a guy who was/is kind to her, etc.

Earlier in this thread, CC gave article on some residents protesting construction of an Islamic high school in their Australian region. Now how on earth, is that any different than a traditional Mennonite high school in Ontario..('course it tends to out in the country)? I visited one with my conservative Mennonite friend (who wears a white cap on her hairbun and always, always wears dressses and dark pantyhose, even when its 90 degrees F). We dropped by a graduation picnic. The girls were playing baseball, in their dresses, pantyhose and running shoes.

My friend is only one of 3 who remained conservative Mennonite, other is an older sister. Remaining 5 siblinigs left the Mennonite fold voluntarily. And their children many are not religious at all....but because there is regular extended family contact for this Mennonite family, these non-Mennonite/non-religious children/next generation are respectful to Mennonites and others who are "different". I have met her nieces and nephews at various family functions. Forces of assimilation are powerful...over the generations in North America.

What I am trying to say how much personal, frequent exposure a person has to progressive plus traditional/fundamental folks of a particular community, really helps one learn that a fundamentalist-looking community, has many shades of grey/interpretations.

Otherwise some outsiders or people whose family members not from a culture/religion, etc. will never get over their "fear".

[OakLeaf]

I also think that honor killing, like Chinese girl babies given away at birth to orphanages in China...happens but not as frequently as outsiders think.

IMO it's just the opposite. There have been at least a dozen honor killings among white, almost certainly Christian families in Ohio alone just in the past year. It's just that the press in predominantly Christian countries calls them "honor killings" when they're committed by Muslims, and nothing at all when they're committed by Christians or people of other religions.