Can we wash our bikes like pros?

[Pedal Wench]

Mmm. I think that's only on Shimano. My Campy 10-speed lock rings have been used repeatedly with no ill effects.

[Jen72]

Pedal wrench and Oakleaf:

What is a cassette and where is this little thin washer you are talking about? Thanks in advance.

[SadieKate]

Because deforming the metal creates pressure that enhances the lock.

Once the metal has been deformed and thinned in places, it can't create the pressure it's intended to exert.

I will say that I was surprised to find a crush washer in that location. I'm used to seeing them only as seals in pressurized fluid systems (oil or coolant). But by definition, a crush washer is meant for a single use.

And I've never seen a crush washer so thin! Those are practically foil.

It's not a crush washer. It's just a spring steel lock washer. It doesn't stay deformed once tightened and removed.

You don't need to replace it unless you lose it.

I swap cassettes frequently with not a problem. So do the pros race to race.

[SadieKate]

Pedal wrench and Oakleaf:

What is a cassette and where is this little thin washer you are talking about? Thanks in advance.

The cassette is the rear cog cluster. The lock washer is between the cassette and the lock ring, and is actually attached to the lock ring. You'd have to pry it off the lockring to get it out.

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=48

[OakLeaf]

It's not a crush washer. It's just a wavy spring steel lock washer. It doesn't stay deformed once tightened and removed.

You don't need to replace it unless you lose it.

I swap cassettes frequently with not a problem. So do the pros race to race.

There's a crush washer in my 105 cassette. Shimano's exploded parts fiche doesn't even show it, but it's there. As I said, it's extremely thin, maybe half again the weight of heavy-duty aluminum foil. It goes under the "wavy" lock ring. The old one was definitely permanently deformed. I guess if it's not in the parts fiche, maybe it isn't necessary??

Don't know about any other brands or models, but I guess I'd be surprised if all Shimano cassettes didn't have them.


ETA: off topic, but hmmmmmm - Shimano's site says not to use the Ultegra cassette with a triple crank. Didn't know that. If Ultegra had been available in 11-25 as I wanted, I would've gone that way. Lucky.

[SadieKate]

There's a crush washer in my 105 cassette. As I said, it's extremely thin, maybe half again the weight of heavy-duty aluminum foil. It goes under the "wavy" lock ring.

We're looking directly at an XT cassette. Between the lock ring and the 1st cog (both of which have serrated or knurled edges - what you call wavy?), is a washer. It is made of paper thin steel and is slotted into the threading of the lock ring and it is not meant to be removed.

We don't think of it as a crush washer. It is not thick enough or designed to deform. If you try to pry one off, it will behave like spring steel and it looks like chrome-plated spring steel. It returns to shape when messed with.

I think if it was meant to be replaced everytime you removed the cassette, Park Tool or Shimano would tell you to do it. And Shimano absolutely loves to sell you bits and pieces like chain pins. Not ones to shirk from making an extra penny.

[papaver]

I use this thing to clean the chain. Really handy. http://www.parktool.com/products/det...at=8&item=CM-5

[Vireo]

I wash my bikes often. It seems ALL bottles leak I get sticky sugary stuff all over the bike from my long training (8+ hours) rides. My bike also gets filthy from commuting. I use a hose and dish wash soap (whatever we happen to have). I then wipe it down with either Finish Line Teflon or Pedros Bike Lust.

[OakLeaf]

Revisiting this thread because I was swapping out cassettes and finally remembered to take a picture of the crush washer I was talking about...

This is the one from the cassette that had been sitting in the toolbox for the last 3-1/2 months. As you can see, the deformations have not relaxed even though there's been no torque on it for that period of time.

I re-installed it with that washer, but it still makes me nervous.



Also - this can't possibly be related, because the cassette I took off had only been installed once, with the new crush washer - but it was loose when I went to remove it. Not loose enough to rattle, but loose enough that it took very little effort to remove. I'd used my good Snap-On torque wrench to install it, as always, so it wasn't undertorqued. Why would it be loose?

[IvonaDestroi]

Also - this can't possibly be related, because the cassette I took off had only been installed once, with the new crush washer - but it was loose when I went to remove it. Not loose enough to rattle, but loose enough that it took very little effort to remove. I'd used my good Snap-On torque wrench to install it, as always, so it wasn't undertorqued. Why would it be loose? [/QUOTE]

is it the deformed one you're re-using? did you try hammering it flat? If it's loose then I'd be worried... sometimes people don't put things together properly the first time either, maybe the shop just grabbed the wrong washer in the first place when they built it? or maybe you put it on backwards? I always accidently put things on backwards, lol!

[OakLeaf]

The cassette I just took off was brand new when I put it on, and actually the crush washer was deformed in the package - not to the extent of the one in the picture, but it had some indentations on it. Again, brand new never been torqued. If someone at Shimano grabbed the wrong washer, they've done it three times now with the three new cassettes I've put on this bike.

Re-using it is what this conversation is about... I really don't think it's a good idea, but I can't find anywhere to get new ones, and both PedalWench and SK think it's fine. I haven't looked, but probably I could mail order them from the UK, like the parts to rebuild the brifters.

I didn't try hammering it flat, that's an idea for next time. It doesn't appear to have a front/back that I can tell, but I didn't remove it from the lockring when I installed the new cassette, so again, it went on in the orientation it was in the package. And I torqued it to spec with my good Snap-On torque wrench.

[dianne_1234]

I'd be surprised if re-using the crush washer "as-is" could be proven to cause any issues.

Think of all the cassettes in the world, ever taken off and put back on: they all re-use their crush washer. Including all of mine - and I've done hundreds (thousands?) of them if you count the ones I did when I worked in a shop.

Except the cassettes that don't come with a crush washer - then the lockring goes on directly against the last cog. Still no issues.

So, no need to flatten it (hammer or otherwise), just put it on and tighten it up. If in doubt tighten it with a torque wrench. The spec is printed on the lock ring and the number is pretty high, almost as tight as BB cups and cranks IIRC.

On the other hand, I don't know why your previous installation might have seemed loose. Speculation here: a bit of dirt or something was there, then fell out... nah, that doesn't seem likely. But at any rate, if you simply re-use your crush washer when you reinstall your cassette it should be fine.

[OakLeaf]

The spec is printed on the lock ring and the number is pretty high, almost as tight as BB cups and cranks IIRC.

Actually it's only 40 n-M (30 ft-lbs) which seemed to me awfully loose! Something of that physical size makes me want to put at least 40 ft-lbs. But I didn't, I torqued it to spec.

I don't know what the spec for the BB is, but I would sure hope it's 45-50 ft-lbs! Maybe I'm just too used to working on motorcycles, but I want my chassis and drivetrain parts solid.

[dianne_1234]

Actually it's only 40 n-M (30 ft-lbs) which seemed to me awfully loose! Something of that physical size makes me want to put at least 40 ft-lbs. But I didn't, I torqued it to spec.

I don't know what the spec for the BB is, but I would sure hope it's 45-50 ft-lbs! Maybe I'm just too used to working on motorcycles, but I want my chassis and drivetrain parts solid.

Thanks for the number Oakleaf.
Posting them made me look up a typical BB cup. Shimano asks for 35 ~ 50 Nm. Cite here:
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830667739.pdf

So it's nice to know my memory isn't that bad!

Bottom line the lock ring should be *tight*.