Building Cadence.....

[246marathon]

Hello everyone. This is my first time replying on this forum (or any forum for that matter!). I started biking in the last month, after spending the last 25 years as a distance runner - anything from the mile to the marathon. Now that I am older (43), I have developed structural foot pain and have chosen to bike since running everyday is painful. Duathlons next summer are my goal and I must say - thanks to my sister in law, I LOVE BIKING!!! It's nice to get excited about something again and look forward to seeing what I can do on a bike. Anyway.....

The cadence issue is something I also struggle with sometimes. Most of my rides are anywhere from 75-90 or more but I often feel like I sacrifice mph in order to keep the cadence at a reasonable level. Most winter training I have researched as said to ride a lot of miles in the 80-90 rpm range to build an aerobic base. But I sometimes don't feel like my heart rate gets very high (may be because of all the running), and I am switching gears often, especially when I come to a long hill, in order to keep the cadence. Am I OK doing this for the winter to build a base, or should I also add more resistance and slow down the cadence some in order to gain power? I have tried both, and when my cadence was lower and I felt like I was giving it everything because the resistance was higher, my legs were spent very quickly. At 80-85 rpm, I can go 20-25 miles very easily, and follow that with a run.

Since I am new to this whole biking thing, is what I am doing OK, and then in the spring adding some intervals of very high cadence, and some of low cadence and high resistance for strength? Any help anyone has would be great. Having run and coached runners, I am thinking that doing some of the same types of workouts, only geared for the bike, will help increase my overall speed for the sprint duathlons next year.

I want to say that it is very refreshing to see answers/information presented in a way that doesn't make novices like myself, feel like our questions are ridiculous. It is especially nice to link up with so many women who are passionate about the same things. I thank you and look forward to reading more about you all in the future!

"See in yourself not the limits, but the stars"

[OakLeaf]

I sometimes don't feel like my heart rate gets very high (may be because of all the running)

I think you're right - for one thing, any given person's MHR for cycling will be around 5 bpm lower than their MHR for running - and also to me, running is just way more aerobically demanding. I'm running much more now than I ever did, and one thing I found this summer is that I never, not once, ran out of air on the bike. I don't race or push myself terribly hard on the bike, but last year there were definitely hills where I was struggling for breath, and sprints where oxygen was as much a limiting factor as muscle. Since I started running more, that's just not the case.

Still, you can get your HR pretty high on the bike. IME I just have to work at it a lot harder than I do running.

[BalaRoja]

Hello everyone. This is my first time replying on this forum (or any forum for that matter!). I started biking in the last month, after spending the last 25 years as a distance runner - anything from the mile to the marathon. Now that I am older (43), I have developed structural foot pain and have chosen to bike since running everyday is painful. Duathlons next summer are my goal and I must say - thanks to my sister in law, I LOVE BIKING!!! It's nice to get excited about something again and look forward to seeing what I can do on a bike. Anyway.....

The cadence issue is something I also struggle with sometimes. Most of my rides are anywhere from 75-90 or more but I often feel like I sacrifice mph in order to keep the cadence at a reasonable level. Most winter training I have researched as said to ride a lot of miles in the 80-90 rpm range to build an aerobic base. But I sometimes don't feel like my heart rate gets very high (may be because of all the running), and I am switching gears often, especially when I come to a long hill, in order to keep the cadence. Am I OK doing this for the winter to build a base, or should I also add more resistance and slow down the cadence some in order to gain power? I have tried both, and when my cadence was lower and I felt like I was giving it everything because the resistance was higher, my legs were spent very quickly. At 80-85 rpm, I can go 20-25 miles very easily, and follow that with a run.

Since I am new to this whole biking thing, is what I am doing OK, and then in the spring adding some intervals of very high cadence, and some of low cadence and high resistance for strength? Any help anyone has would be great. Having run and coached runners, I am thinking that doing some of the same types of workouts, only geared for the bike, will help increase my overall speed for the sprint duathlons next year.

I want to say that it is very refreshing to see answers/information presented in a way that doesn't make novices like myself, feel like our questions are ridiculous. It is especially nice to link up with so many women who are passionate about the same things. I thank you and look forward to reading more about you all in the future!

"See in yourself not the limits, but the stars"

Good for you on your new goals and for taking up cycling. Sometimes that how it is - you try new things and they can be very rewarding. Sounds like you are in the right place.

You probably generate a higher max heart rate while running because it is clearly a highly weight bearing activity whereas cycling isn't quite as weight bearing. Steep hills on a bike will have you bearing the most weight while on a bike and should get your heart rate fairly high. Most people I've talked to who do triathlons always mention a higher max heart rate on runs than biking so you wouldn't be alone there.

About your cadence question - from everything I've seen, brand new riders are more likely to use a lower cadence, say 60ish. (not without exceptions obviously) Whereas more experienced people tend to use a higher cadence, roughly 90ish.

There are a lot of advantages to a higher cadence. One of the more obvious ones is that it is easier to accelerate if you are spinning comfortably at 85 rpms, than if you are grinding at 55 - assuming you are going the same speed (20 mph at 85rpms & 20 mph at 55 rpms) because each pedal stroke at 85rpms requires less force. Another thing is how it tends to generate less muscle fatigue - a higher cadence - in your legs than if using a bigger gear. It seems like you've noticed that in your own training already when you use a higher cadence and have an easier time running later. It probably is 'saving your legs' a bit. I bet serious triathletes and ladies here who participate in multi-sport competitions can give you a more insightful response on the bike then run angle.

The corollary of all this is that a higher cadence you will feel your heart rate and cardiovascular system be more taxed. As I mentioned in another response, get on your bike and get in the granny gear and spin to 100+ rpms for as long as you can - you can even do this will going downhill - and you'll notice how your heart beat speeds up very quickly, even if you are basically coasting down a hill.

If you are a duathlete, then I assume your bike goals in a race are along the lines of a time trial. Meaning the faster you go, the better your result since it is all about overall time right?

In that case, just use whatever cadence you are more comfortable with. Try different ones for a few weeks to get used to how they feel and I bet you'll soon find your happy cadence spot, whether that's 60, 80 or 110

[tctrek]

I am working with a coach and she actually sets up my workouts with a specific cadence range that I should aim for. Except for climbs and hill repeats, my cadence must always be over 70 rpm.

So, it's about finding the right gear where I can keep the required cadence and the required heart rate. My heart rates normally run pretty high so this would not apply to everyone, but for example at a 70-80 rpm, I would want enough resistance to get my hr up to 152-155 and sustain that hr/cadence combination for an 8-10 minute interval. Then recover for 8 mins and do it again! For the 85-95 cadence, I find the gearing to maintain my hr at 159-162.

These intervals have really helped me to pick up my cadence and as I get better at them, I can use more gear and keep the same hr/cadence so I end up going faster!! I've increased my avg speed by 3 mph in 2 months and I credit these intervals.

Of course, I should disclose that I am an absolute geek when it comes to all this data. It fascinates me and doesn't detract at all from my pure joy of riding.

[sarahspins]

My heart rates normally run pretty high so this would not apply to everyone, but for example at a 70-80 rpm, I would want enough resistance to get my hr up to 152-155 and sustain that hr/cadence combination for an 8-10 minute interval. Then recover for 8 mins and do it again! For the 85-95 cadence, I find the gearing to maintain my hr at 159-162.

Okay, bear in mind I am relatively new to the whole monitoring HR thing, but my resting heartrate is always high... and has been for as long as I remember. In fact, the only time I remember it being "normal" was when I was severely hypothyroid after having my daughter (TSH was 16.7 or something stupid)... so how does a higher heart rate effect your max? Mine is not so far off from yours... and I know what my resting HR is (and it's higher than average) and now I'm wondering just how abnormal that is.

[tctrek]

Okay, bear in mind I am relatively new to the whole monitoring HR thing, but my resting heartrate is always high... and has been for as long as I remember. In fact, the only time I remember it being "normal" was when I was severely hypothyroid after having my daughter (TSH was 16.7 or something stupid)... so how does a higher heart rate effect your max? Mine is not so far off from yours... and I know what my resting HR is (and it's higher than average) and now I'm wondering just how abnormal that is.

Well, my heart rate upon waking is about 68. But once I'm walking around, going to work, etc. it runs around 83. When I get on the bike, it immediately goes to 100-105. On a super easy recovery ride, it runs around 125-130. One time I was doing a very long 7-8 degree climb and I sustained a heart rate of 173 for 22 minutes.

So, that's how high my heart rate is! Some people freak out when they hear it, but it's really normal for me. I've been checked by doctors and they say I have a hummingbird heart -- it's small and beats fast .

[kimikaw]

Lucked into another beautiful fall day, and was able to get about a 14 mile ride in after work. Kept an average cadence of 84rpm. So pretty good improvement from Sunday's 64. On a much, much hillier route, too.

And, wasn't sucking air as bad as on Monday. Amazing how quickly bodies acclimate to physical stress.

I think it's a bit of developing a muscle memory at the higher cadence versus the lower I'd been doing.

That said I once again feel it more in my hams and glutes post-ride. Just the faster cadence or the clipless pedals or all of the above?

And best of all didn't fall...getting hang of the clipless! Great day!

[KnottedYet]

Before getting too excited about high cadences (and in the 1970's we thought 60 rpm was hot stuff!) take a gander at your muscle: are you more a slow twitch or a fast twitch kind of gal?

Are you the sort who can go forever and not run out of steam, or are you a little bunny rabbit who goes very very fast? When you were in track, did you run 50/100/200 m, or were you in the 400m and up?

Forcing a slow twitch athlete to go at a higher rpm than they are built for is going to put their best asset (slow twitch fibers) to waste while stressing the small portion of fast twitch they have. (we all have some of each)

Force a distance runner (slow twitch) to race a short sprint, and not only with they lose, they'll also likely be gasping for breath and puking at the end of the race. (it's quite a spectacle! I've done it!) But no-one is going to point at the distance runner and say she's a poor runner and out of shape.

Don't kick yourself if your rpm doesn't meet some mythical "good" number. There's nothing magical about higher numbers, what's magical is riding well by taking advantage of your strengths and feeling fabulous! There are many different riders: Do what feels right.