Behind the Scenes @ Chrysler Dealers

[Mr. Bloom]

Oh they will if they'll have to pay as much for gas as we Europeans do.

papa, I struggle with some of the American/European comparisons:

- we drive more, because we're more spread out
- because we're so spread out, rapid transit across regions is way too expensive to build

- one might argue that Canada is big and has more available, but remember that almost all of Canada's population lives in the southern 50 miles of the country...it might as well be Chile

Off topic:
- our cellular is weaker, because we have so much land mass
- we don't speak languages because most of us have to travel a long way to regularly encounter someone who doesn't speak English...

Give us $10/gallon gas, and we still only afford rapid transit in the big cities...I'm confident that we'll get there...but it's a much bigger investment for us because of our sheer size.

Perspective: The US is 309x bigger than Belgium by land area, but only 27x bigger by population. We'd have to tax everyone 10 times more to build the same infrastructure (and taxes are un-American)

[Crankin]

Shooting Star, my mom washed out bags, too. And labeled everything in the freezer, etc. She did not have to, but I think she learned this from *her* mom, who was a young mother in the depression. My mom was born in 1929, a week after the crash of the stock market.
It's funny, some things I am very frugal or conscious of (buying real food, cooking good meals, how much I am driving), but other things I want convenience. I take the train or commuter rail to my grad classes, as not only can I not bear to fight the traffic and bad drivers in Cambridge, but I won't pay for parking, or be continually worried I have to run out and put more money in the meter. I'd rather pay the mass transit. The university reimburses me for parking at the train garage, as it's seen as helping the parking situation and when I take the commuter rail, the local grocery store lets us park there for free. I've ridden my bike to the commuter rail station a few times and even got lights, etc., but now, the schedule to come home does not fit my schedule.
Well, I had a car free day, today, because I skipped my group ride that was meeting too far away, for a ride that didn't thrill me. Since I have to drive to that same area tomorrow for a meeting, I am glad.

[Biciclista]

I sure wouldn't put the blame for all these high powered cars on MEN. I've been honked at plenty of times by WOMEN in large SUV's with heavy feet.
And half of my bike club was taken out by a 5 foot tall woman driving a 4x4 pickup truck.

And when gas prices go up, if it hurts bad enough, habits will change.
It's the rare fool in Italy who drives a large car today.
But it's "unamerican" to suggest that we'd be better off with higher fuel prices.

[crazycanuck]

There is no way we could live without a vehicle. If we want to travel anywhere in Aust you do realize how big this place is... There are two ways to get around in the rest of Western Australia..Drive or fly. I'm not flying as i'd rather see WA from the ground in a reliable vehicle!!!

I wanted to suggest to my mom (yay she's comin for a visit!!! ) taking the train from Sydney to Perth but then saw the price . Umm no, cheaper to drive!!! I hate being ripped off by train companies. Urugh..don't even mention Via rail in Canada

I trust Toyota to make a reliable vehicle. Ian says it's funny that i'm the short chick(with a speed fetish hidden somewhere) driving a Hilux.

I'm a fan of Top Gear but wouldn't want to drive some of the cool vehicles they test.

[Mr. Bloom]

papa: I understand and apologize for missing your very good points....and for misunderstanding the extent of your taxation

[smilingcat]

papa: I understand and apologize for missing your very good points....and for misunderstanding the extent of your taxation

But it all evens out in the end. Funny it works like that. We may not pay 62% in tax or 90% tax, but is her livelihood any better or worse than ours? Does she have less 'toys" than you or me? We may not pay the tax man but I'm sure papaver does not pay huge out of the pocket medical insuance/bill. In place of tax man, we pay the insurance company.

smilingcat

[Grog]

But it all evens out in the end. Funny it works like that. We may not pay 62% in tax or 90% tax, but is her livelihood any better or worse than ours? Does she have less 'toys" than you or me? We may not pay the tax man but I'm sure papaver does not pay huge out of the pocket medical insuance/bill. In place of tax man, we pay the insurance company.

smilingcat

Exactly what I was thinking...

And there's quite a bit less people in jail in Belgium....... (Just checked the data: 88 per 100,000 population versus 107 in Canada and 725 in the USA in 2004.) (This is worse than I thought.) (This is a secondary use of OECD data, found on Swivel: http://www.swivel.com/data_columns/show/2499139) (I'm really amazed.)

[tulip]

papa, I struggle with some of the American/European comparisons:

- we drive more, because we're more spread out
- because we're so spread out, rapid transit across regions is way too expensive to build

- one might argue that Canada is big and has more available, but remember that almost all of Canada's population lives in the southern 50 miles of the country...it might as well be Chile

Off topic:
- our cellular is weaker, because we have so much land mass
- we don't speak languages because most of us have to travel a long way to regularly encounter someone who doesn't speak English...

Give us $10/gallon gas, and we still only afford rapid transit in the big cities...I'm confident that we'll get there...but it's a much bigger investment for us because of our sheer size.

Perspective: The US is 309x bigger than Belgium by land area, but only 27x bigger by population. We'd have to tax everyone 10 times more to build the same infrastructure (and taxes are un-American)

If you take Europe as a whole, instead of small countries, the land mass is the same-ish (okay well, it's bigger anyways). Of course Belgium is smaller than the US. But it it still possible to go from Sweden to southern Spain or Italy by a relatively efficient and effective train system. Yes, it could use improvement, but it is possible. Try that here. Nope.

There are many, many areas of Europe that are very rural and require a car for the people who live there. Those cars tend to be small, fuel efficient little things. I have rarely seen pickup trucks in my years in Europe. But when those people have to go long distances, they are able to catch a train pretty close by that is efficient, on time, and relatively affordable to get where they need to go. Amtrak is none of those.

Language--uh, I hear Spanish everyday. There's no excuse for not learning Spanish if you live in the US these days. Period.

There's a whole lot that the US can adapt from Europe. I don't buy the excuse that we're so different. If we wanted to do it, if the will was there, we would find a way. Highway subsidies could be transferred to rail, etc. But the will is not there, so it won't happen.

In the meantime, I drive my small car that is not as fuel efficient as the same model in Europe. Why?? It's the same &$*#(*$ car! No safety feature differences, the exact same car except for the mileage. I rented on in France last year. It was great because everything was in the same place. I just didn't have to stop at the gas station so much.

[Mr. Bloom]

If you take Europe as a whole, instead of small countries, the land mass is the same-ish (okay well, it's bigger anyways).

You're right...and the population is about 750,000,000 - more than twice the density of the US.

I really agree with you...for instance, I love the EL in chicago and the Metro in DC, but why can't LA have better mass transit...they have the density...or Dallas, or Houston...but overall, the majority of our land mass lacks the density...and the dense areas are too far apart...

[smilingcat]

I love the EL in chicago and the Metro in DC, but why can't LA have better mass transit...they have the density...or Dallas, or Houston...

Way back when, LA did have a very good trolly system. Some large companies bought out the trolly system and shut it down so they could sell more... That is if you believe the history according some "historians". Not sure who to believe these days.

Only reason I brought up the kind of cars seen in my company parking lot was a bit of thread drift. Drift was along the line of is it fair to completely blame the big three. Afterall, if the buyers don't buy into the idea or if the buyers don't demand, would they have manufactured these monster cars? At times the argument of why detroit built all these monster cars seem like a chicken and an egg question. Did the buyers demand it or detroit created the demand through sexy advertisement. ???

Dear Tuckerville,

if my post came across as "painting the canvass with wide brush/broad stroke", it was not meant to be. There are other regular cars in our parking lot. Honda Accord, small pkup, older jeep... The point I wanted to make is that there are segments of our society where consumerism has run amock. The technician who bought the hummer said that he bought it because the sales person and the finance person at the dealer assured him that he could afford the car. OKAY he said. AND HAS DETROIT BEEN FEEDING ON THIS OUT OF CONTROL CONSUMERISM? The guy who owns the Audi RS4 or is it R4 also is the same one who owns one of the corvettes. He also owns a vintage car. He is single and in his 40's and real motorhead if there ever was one. He was replacing a radiator for his vintage car in the parking lot one day during lunch hour. And the another motor head drives a BMW M3 with modified suspension system. He also races cars. Again single and in his early 40's. no not your typical guy.

The question is: are Detroit feeding on these people and creating a demand by making it look sexy or making it look as though you made in the game of life where winning is determined by the toys you have acquired? And has the general public bought it hook line and sinker on the ad campaign?

Or did Detroit's failing partially due to the demand of the public with desire for the behemouth cars and failing to see the complete picture? In other words, Detroit was led to the behemouth cars by the demand of the public and failing to see the rest?

on side note: if you mention global warming to my co-workers, they will laugh at you and will become beligerent toward you and belittle your intelligence. They and I have agreed to disagree. It's an off limit topic.

Dear 7 rider,
Very good point that the three cars I listed were foreign cars. They are not immune either. The difference is they didn't put all their eggs in one basket like the big three. In all honesty though, I really don't have a clue on the MPG rating of those cars. just knowing how they drive, it can't be good. One brags the fact that his low profile tires last less than 15,000miles and proud of it. At $250-$300 per tire its mighty expensive. Again the number is what they told me. Or was it just bravado on their part?

oh one more thing:
Yes both my parents are Japanese and I may have been born there. But my home is here. My livlihood is here. In Japan, I am a gaijin literal translation is outside person. I am a foreigner in Japan. I have no desire to make mockery of our society. It is my home too.

[Trek420]

Way back when, LA did have a very good trolly system. Some large companies bought out the trolly system and shut it down so they could sell more... That is if you believe the history according some "historians". Not sure who to believe these days.

Same here. We had the Key System, a network of electric trains before BART that went almost anywhere and everywhere. The system was "killed off" by the tire industry promoting busses and cars according to "historians" and elder locals I've talked to including my folks.

I found some cute posters of the era in a used book store promoting how busses and cars would revolutionize transportation here. These show happy people driving to work.

Wish they could see my hour long 20 mile commute. Thank G** for BART.

http://www.oaklandmagazine.com/media...-the-East-Bay/

[shootingstar]

Not sure I got my facts straight, but apparently in Germany there is an annual tax..to own a car.

In my last job, there were alot of German ex-pats on staff. I had one working in my dept. That's what she told me...amongst many other things about life, taxation, benefits in Germany.

She worked for the national rail company in Germany for a few years. She did tell me of some company/line mergers that were occurring there.

[papaver]

Not sure I got my facts straight, but apparently in Germany there is an annual tax..to own a car.

In my last job, there were alot of German ex-pats on staff. I had one working in my dept. That's what she told me...amongst many other things about life, taxation, benefits in Germany.

She worked for the national rail company in Germany for a few years. She did tell me of some company/line mergers that were occurring there.

yep, we have that one too... and the smaller the car the less you pay.

[ny biker]

We pay a car tax in Virginia. It's based on the value of the car. I think they have the same thing in Connecticut.

[shootingstar]

yep, we have that one too... and the smaller the car the less you pay.

Yes, I recall that was true for Germany also.

What is the annual car tax for you NY?