Custom Bike - 650 vs. 700 wheels

**ZenSojourner** · 05-03-2009, 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by Susan Otcenas

The 700c bike has 12 degree slope in the top tube of the 700c, which I'm not sure I care for. And the small frame looks scrunched between those big wheels. The 650c bike looks proportionate to me.

I'd go with the 650c wheels

I had a bike once with 700c wheels and a sloped top tube. This meant there was less room at the headset to adjust stem height - actually in this case there was NO room to adjust the headset as it was already higher than the seat and could not be lowered. I rather doubt Sweetpea's design using 700c wheels would be anywhere near that bad, but as has been pointed out and as I think you acknowledged, there have to be trade offs in smaller bikes with 700c wheels.

Your adjustment options will be much better with the 650c frame, but since this is a custom fit I rather doubt you'll need to adjust much. Still, you never know how things might change for you. You'll have more leeway with the 650c.

Yeah, tires may be an issue. I've got a 24" front wheel so I know a little bit about that. I just carry a spare innertube for each tire and a spare 24" tire on multi-day or non-SAGged long rides. On a SAGged ride, I don't see why a SAG vehicle wouldn't be willing to carry the spare for you if you asked.

Some people may tolerate a particular trade-off (or two) better than others; I'm 5'2", but I'm so short-waisted even for my height that I cannot deal with the tradeoffs that have to be made to make a 700c bike "fit" me (actually can't be made to fit me). It's not just about height, but about the whole package and your particular body characteristics.

**sundial** · 05-03-2009, 05:36 AM

Aesthetically, I would go with the 650's.

I would stock up on tires/tubes when you get her built and that way you'll always be prepared for the inevitable. 650 is making a comeback in the mtb world and the trends are usually a trickle down effect from the road bikes so I think in the not too distant future you will see more options for your wheels.

**Triskeliongirl** · 05-03-2009, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by MartianDestiny

I certainly agree that choices in geometry affect handling and thus the geometry considerations when considering 700c vs. 650b should also be looked at from a handling perspective.

However, I've gotten the impression from this thread that if you want a 700c wheel on a small bike then you are going to have to live with either a) a horribly sluggish slow steering bike with the wheel way out in front of you b) a horribly twitchy bike or c) some weird compromise in your seat vs. pedals position.

As a 5' tall rider with two 700c road bikes (one an XS Giant and one a 47cm Wilier) I disagree.

No, that is not what I said. But, to have it handle normally, you will have either toe clip overlap, or a longer reach. You may have one of these options, but find its not a problem for you.

SUSAN, ONE MORE CONSIDERATION: Are you planning to have this built w s/s couplers (which I highly recommend). I thought you might since it is replacing your friday for travel. If that is the case, 650C/26" wheels fit more easily into the packing case than 700c. The terry tullus is a good 28mm 650c tire, and the schwalbe stevlio (recently replaced by ultremo) is a great 23mm 650c tire. Any wider, you'll want to consider 26".

**madscot13** · 05-03-2009, 06:21 PM

how easy/ difficult is it to switch between 26" and 650c wheels? do any certain types of brakes facilitate this?

In terms of proportions and aesthetics I like how 650c wheels look in proportion to 700 and small frames. I am always dreaming of my next bike. It seemed logical to get a 26" frame in the future for stand over issues. I know there is more to fit than that but on my current bike I don't have toe overlap and any reach issues are taken care of- anything more than that gets too complicated for me. I thought that with 26" tires with different wheelsets I could go as racy as I want or ride on gravel paths with wider tires, which 26" tires are more known for. yes the available tubes for 26" are limited (and 650c even more so) and I would probably get a custom wheelset for fast days, but there are a lot of options. You just have to be ready to sort of steer away from what the rest of the pack is doing.

schwalbe tires runs pretty narrow. check out there website and search ETRO at 559:http://www.schwalbetires.com/product...op0=OR&filter0[]=559-20

congrats on the sweetpea

ps 650 and 26" (well some) tubes are smaller than 700, so you can bring two

**Triskeliongirl** · 05-04-2009, 06:44 AM

Susan, please let us know what you decide! We can't wait to see the bike. How exciting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Susan Otcenas** · 05-04-2009, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

SUSAN, ONE MORE CONSIDERATION: Are you planning to have this built w s/s couplers (which I highly recommend). I thought you might since it is replacing your friday for travel.

That's the plan!

**ilima** · 05-04-2009, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by madscot13

how easy/ difficult is it to switch between 26" and 650c wheels? do any certain types of brakes facilitate this?

I think long-reach calipers allow you to do this. And a brilliant suggestion on Triskeliongirl's part.

I saw a posting of a bike built up like this a couple weeks back. I wish I could remember where, though!

**Triskeliongirl** · 05-04-2009, 01:32 PM

Actually, running the 650c/26" is Deb W's idea, and how her bike was built. Her bike sounds a lot like the one Susan wants, so perhaps they should chat a bit.

The builder that installed S/S couplers on my touring bike strongly recommended 650c/26" for travel bikes, since the airline case limit is 26". You can fit a 700c wheel, but have to put it in at an angle and/or remove the tires to fit it, a real pain when packing and unpacking. Susan, you will notice that it is a bit more work to pack/un pack an S/S coupled bike than a friday, but well worth it in my opinion for the improved ride quality. Just discuss all these issues with your builder, that's the whole point of going custom, to get really knowledgable input. We can only guess what the differences are between the 2 designs in terms of handling, TCO, etc., but obviously your builder can discuss with you better your specific designs.

I will be honest though, not sure a 26" wheelset is necessary, since the terry tellus 28c tire is fine for most touring applications, but its clearly a good option for versatility which I think you want in a travel bike.

**tulip** · 05-04-2009, 05:06 PM

Susan, you've had a Bike Friday, so you already know to carry extra tubes and tire with you. Just do the same for the 650 if that's what you want to go with.

My Luna has 700c wheels. My Bike Friday has 20" (451) wheels. It's no problem with my Bike Friday to order extra tubes and tires. I carry two tubes with me, which ever bike I'm riding. When I ride the Bike Friday, I also carry a spare tire (folding).

As for handling, I can only compare my 700c-wheel bike with my 20"-wheeled bike. I notice very little difference. I've broken spokes on my "big bike" but never on my Friday. That brings up another thing--I tape some extra spokes to my bike--both of them. Just good to have, like a tube and tire. I actually think that I climb better on my Bike Friday, but since I'm not much of a speedster I don't really pay that much attention to it. I don't do criteriums on either, and both are really great to ride.

EDIT: Not for Susan, but for others who are considering travel bikes--I have a high-end, high-performance Bike Friday. It is awesome to ride; very fast and responsive. I ride it as much or more than my "regular" road bike, and it's wonderful for traveling both in a plane and to stick in the way back of my little car when I go on business trips and to visit my family. There's no compromise in ride quality with my Bike Friday. Just a little side thought in case someone is wondering.

**madscot13** · 05-04-2009, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

Actually, running the 650c/26" is Deb W's idea, and how her bike was built. Her bike sounds a lot like the one Susan wants, so perhaps they should chat a bit.

I will be honest though, not sure a 26" wheelset is necessary, since the terry tellus 28c tire is fine for most touring applications, but its clearly a good option for versatility which I think you want in a travel bike.

how wide can you go with long reach brakes?

**Susan Otcenas** · 05-13-2009, 03:40 PM

I decided to go with 650s...

**Biciclista** · 05-13-2009, 03:50 PM

we all can't wait to see what your new bike looks like!

**Susan Otcenas** · 05-13-2009, 04:24 PM

Me too.

What do you think of blood red metallic for a paint scheme?

**divingbiker** · 05-13-2009, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Susan Otcenas

Me too.

What do you think of blood red metallic for a paint scheme?

I think it sounds perfect! (That's what I'm getting when I get my custom bike.)

**lunacycles** · 05-13-2009, 04:47 PM

Yo Susan,

Good choice on the wheel size. I don't know what fork you are going with, but if you are interested in a carbon option that isn't all aero-like in how it looks (read, massive blades), tell Natalie I have a pile of 650c Reynolds Ouzo Pro's I snatched up from Serotta about a year ago--1" steerer, all carbon. I'm happy to sell her/you one. Maybe she has other options in mind, but in 650c this would be the way to go, as any replacement steel fork would also likely take a 1" steerer. Good price, too.

Have fun!

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