Dealing with unemployment - anyone else?

[IvonaDestroi]

Trading your valuable time for something equally as valuable is not "selling out". It's participating in a system in our society which allows people to get the things they want for the things they have. We don't have to talk about whether capitalism is good or bad, because no one's mind will be changed. However, it is the way of the world here. Participate or not as you see fit, but don't let yourself sink to desperation and then expect sympathy or consideration for your self expression.

In the hierarchy of needs, pink hair does not rank.

eta: Okay, that came out more harsh than I intended. It's not personally directed, but directed at a general group of mainly young people, who have yet to learn these cold hard realities. Fortunately, we have recessions that help with this problem!

Karen

You're fun to debate with - I like these types of discussions with people whos ideas are exactly opposite of my own. Call it an exercise in objectivity...

well, you know, your generation probably had much more conservative attitudes then my own. For you, this type of thing is probably considered an extremity of some sort, a youthful and unrealistic phase in life that one will eventually "snap out of".

You have to understand that as time goes on, things that were previously considered exotic quickly become socially acceptable. You remind me so much of my mother, with the idea that that it's just a childish rebellious attitude to grow out of. 10 years later it's still 'just a phase'...

Just like you are entitled to your religion, every one else is also entitled to theirs. Well, then, think of this as my religion. Not everyone looks at the world through the same lens. Imagine even having this discussion in the 50's... It would have been impercievable. I see a little bit of that leftover in your ideas. (BTW the 50's was the best decade ever in my opinion and I wish I lived back then...except for the whole civil rights issue, but the rest was great-ironic, right?) I am in no way saying you were around back then, but many of those ideas stuck into the following generations.

Anyways I don't think that's really the issue here, why are we still talking about hair color? As I previously stated, it's pretty acceptable in this part of California and really that's not a serious issue at interviews thus far at all. Everyone's said their fine with it. I went to that interview that I was worried might have issues with it this morning, and it turns out the guy had no problem with it whatsoever.

it's funny you call it a "problem". I call it a solution!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

well, you know, your generation probably had much more conservative attitudes then my own. For you, this type of thing is probably considered an extremity of some sort, a youthful and unrealistic phase in life that one will eventually "snap out of".

I just have to respond to these things you wrote. Call it, to paraphrase your words, another exercise in objectivity.

First, there is more than one generation responding to your posts here, so let's keep that in mind- we are of all ages here.
Then, please don't assume that any of these other generations had 'more conservative attitudes' than you when they were your age. Speaking for myself at least, we took risks, we paved the way in terms of rebellious extremes and revolution against the Establishment. I feel fairly safe in saying that many of us were just as wild, creative, and free thinking as you. Many of the women here still are! Without going into detail, I consider myself lucky to even be alive after somehow making it through my first 25 years.

You have to understand that as time goes on, things that were previously considered exotic quickly become socially acceptable.

Um, we already learned this a long time ago. We invented 'the exotic' too, you know. So did our mothers and grandmothers. We were all 'socially unacceptable' and radical in turn. As will your children likely be if you have any.

You remind me so much of my mother, with the idea that that it's just a childish rebellious attitude to grow out of. 10 years later it's still 'just a phase'...

Now that's funny! It is more than probable that in 15 years or so, you will suddenly realize with a shock that you remind yourself of your mother. Most of us have already experienced that little treat. Later still, we start to realize that maybe our mothers were not quite as clueless and conservative as we thought they were.

Yet many of our radical/rebellious thoughts and our fierce individualism we still carry with us as adults, just in an evolved form. Sometimes you won't see it so obviously on the outside....but believe me, it's in there! Oooh...the stories we could tell. Most of us former young rebels have slowly evolved methods of using the passion and individualism in our lives in creative or productive ways to build a life for ourselves. This is a very useful skill, this harnessing of the Wild Forces of Nature within us all, and it comes only with experience and from a lifetime of learning from our mistakes. Do not confuse this experience with 'conservativism'.

Not everyone looks at the world through the same lens. Imagine even having this discussion in the 50's... It would have been impercievable. I see a little bit of that leftover in your ideas. (BTW the 50's was the best decade ever in my opinion and I wish I lived back then...except for the whole civil rights issue, but the rest was great-ironic, right?) I am in no way saying you were around back then, but many of those ideas stuck into the following generations.

You mean 'unimaginable'?
Every generation carries influences and is a product to some extent of the several generations before it, even yours.
Actually, despite the hype, the '50's was a decade of repression- McCarthyism spreading its ugly icy fingers of fear across the country, hateful segregation and brutal race riots, monumental social disdain for anything rebellious or non-conforming...the decade of cookie cutter suburbia, vulgar materialism, environmental destruction, gluttony, and waste, blind corporate loyalty, and the promotion of sameness as being somehow patriotic. Women were still expected to get married, have children, and stay home vacuuming and cooking. And let's not forget the really bad food. For most people, Happy Days it wasn't. Yet, despite all that, you'd be surprised to learn that yes indeed, there were discussions just like this one back then too!

Anyways I don't think that's really the issue here, why are we still talking about hair color? As I previously stated, it's pretty acceptable in this part of California and really that's not a serious issue at interviews thus far at all. Everyone's said their fine with it. I went to that interview that I was worried might have issues with it this morning, and it turns out the guy had no problem with it whatsoever.
it's funny you call it a "problem". I call it a solution!

I think she was referring to the 'problem' you brought up in this thread- that of not having a job and being in your current difficult situation.

I think it's natural for someone young to feel that older people don't understand them, their values, or the issues. In reality, most of us women have not forgotten our beginnings, or the difficult lessons we had to learn along the way. We are on your side. We've been there.

I agree with you, we've all discussed your hair long enough. It's about far more than hair, and the problem you face is a serious one effecting far too many people in our country today. But because the problem is so widespread, any little thing can either work against you or give you an edge on the competition.
Many women have now given you their valuable input based on their own experiences. Put together, that's a lot of experience. Lots of good, varied, and/or interesting suggestions to think about! Consider it all carefully before dismissing it, keep your mind receptive. The rest is up to you.

[Biciclista]

You want to keep your mind strong? I'm not sure what you mean like that? Does it mean being stubborn? you sound kind of stubborn.

You come in here and say; I have tattoos funny hair and I can't get a job. what should I do?

So you DON'T expect us to say; clean up your act, keep the fun stuff for after hours?

Ivona, I thank my lucky stars that I am not where you are. When people need strength, they go to their families. They forget about their pride and take advice from their elders. I was younger than you when I did that. it really burned me and I thought the advice was stupid, but since I did trust (my grandparents) them, I did what they said. And it helped me a lot down the road of life.

Read BlueTree's post about 3 times. She chose an even harder career path than you have, and she's made it.

Good luck

[shootingstar]

Someone mentioned offering to do some initial work for free..

Don't forget the charity fundraisers where your creation if you know your audience in advance, could be auctioned off. And people with money attend some of these fundraisers..great for business networking.

After having only $13.00 in my bank acount, I moved out to big city upon graduation. After nearly 3 wks., out of desperation I volunteered my services. The manager looked at my resume, we chatted..and offered me my first paid job in my profession. Granted, it was part-time, small role...while I held down part-time jobs at...3 different bookstore locations (yea, I was blitzed on some days)...but it was the first step.

And this mentor (20 years older than I), remains a good friend to me to this day, offering me advice at different times of my career. We still are in touch and chat up. I credit the start of my paid career ..to her.

_________________________________
Off topic: I dragged out my sewing machine tonight to mend some tiny rips in a pair of dress black pants..for yet another interview in a few days. Pretty pathetic that I cannot think of any place in any shopping mall in downtown Vancouver to get a fat spool of black thread..sewing suppliers have become scarce these last few decades. So bright blue thread it was-- thankfully on the pants inside and also for a pair of cycling shorts. Must have done the serging tension wrong on the weakened lycra material..it looks bubbly. But who cares for 1 more season, if I'm just riding for fitness.

Was watching a reality fashion design competition. It was the finale. That is a HUGE amount of time and energy for each young designer to create each piece for just a collection modelled down that runway. I can appreciate your 80 hr. wk. long homework design assignment and class time. Just cutting and sewing 1 bottom or top tailored piece with some fine French finishes, would take me at least 2-3 days and its evenings solid. Your time would also have to include fabric selection, design, pattern drafting, etc.

[Running Mommy]

Reading through all these replies and something came to mind...
There is nothing we can do or say to help Ivona.
This whole thread gave me a headache. So much good advice, but giving it to someone that is not "open" to it. Because of course we are all "old" and from a "different generation".... As if!!!
I'm walking away from this thread shaking my head.

[papaver]

And I have a big meeting with some important Antwerp fashion designers today. I wonder if they will be dressed down.

[Selkie]

Kind of obvious and someone might have already mentioned it.

Why not do alterations/seamstress work? See if you can get work with a tailor or at a big Dept Store.

[lph]

Reading through all these replies and something came to mind...
There is nothing we can do or say to help Ivona.
This whole thread gave me a headache. So much good advice, but giving it to someone that is not "open" to it. Because of course we are all "old" and from a "different generation".... As if!!!
I'm walking away from this thread shaking my head.

With all due respect, I don't agree, Running Mommy. There's plenty of good general advice here, as far as I can tell, but not being in her shoes it's hard for me to tell how applicable it is to her situation. She's entitled to her own opinion no matter her age, too.

And she never did say anything about "us all being old". I'm finding this a really good thread, full of interesting stories. I can't really add anything but keep reading it all. I wish I'd known enough to go ask people for input when I was at that point in life.

[papaver]

A friend of mine has worked a couple of years in a costume shop. They make costumes for big opera, musical and theatre productions. The first two months she worked for free, after that she got paid a normal salary. Now she works at the design department of Levi's.

[ZenSojourner]

I, too, get the distinct impression that the original poster has some unrealistic ideas about us elderly types.

The current generation always seems to labor under the misapprehension that they're the ones who invented revolution.

I have to laugh when I see things like interviews of youngsters on TV regarding, say, internet access or the AMAZING idea that there are people over 30 on FACEBOOK! These kids say things like, "Oh, I think it's WONDERFUL that older people are figuring out how to use computers!"

LOL! Who do you think INVENTED them?

And talk about restrictive dress codes! I was in junior high school before girls were allowed to wear slacks to school, because it was considered "immodest". Yes, much more "modest" to walk up the stairs in a skirt while boys stood at the bottom yelling, "I see London, I see France, I see whosis' UNDERPANTS". Teachers weren't allowed to wear slacks to school until I was in High School.

I have my own "unusual" dress choices, but I don't dress that way (stretch pants, hippy tops, Salwar Kameez, sandals) when I NEED a job. Now when I have job CHOICES, it's a different matter. I once turned down a job that would have doubled my salary because they required women to wear 2" heels and dresses. You had to have a (male) supervisor's WRITTEN PERMISSION to wear slacks to work - as a PROGRAMMER.

But I already HAD a job. I didn't have $100,000 in debt and a cat to take care of with no income in sight.

Speaking of which, it's women like us who opened up engineering professions for other women. The school I attended ran their computer sciences department from the College of Engineering. That meant it was heavily math/engineering/electronics oriented. In nearly all of my classes I was the only girl, or one of only 2 or 3 (the others generally being foreign grad students). The attitude of the instructors ranged from full on chauvinism and unfair grading, to treating me like some kind of cute mascot, with the odd sexual predator thrown in. But every one of us dowdy, conservative women who forged ahead in a program like that made it easier for younger ones coming behind us to follow in our wake.

For years I was considered a bra-burning, ball-busting, man-hating Femi-Nazi for doing things like:

1) refusing to act as a typist when I had been hired as a software engineer
2) insisting that my boss call me by my name instead of "honey" or "dear"
3) informing my boss that it was unprofessional for him to touch me and stroke my hair and that I expected him to treat me professionally at all times
4) offering to sue the company for refusing to send me to a professional society convention (important to professional development and considered when granting promotions and raises) that ALL the men in the office were going to because, according to management, it "might make their wives jealous"
5) refusing to divulge my then-husband's salary to a potential employer during a job interview

And on and on ad infinitum

You may think the color of your hair and all those tattoos don't matter, but I guarantee you, they do. Especially in an employer's market, they are going to choose the LEAST controversial looking potential employees. Businesses are in business to make money. That means they cater to CUSTOMERS, not employees. And they are highly unlikely to hire someone that gives even the least hint that some customers might find them off-putting. I doubt that you would refuse to buy coffee at Starbucks because you were faced with an employee conventionally attired and coifed; but I guarantee you, however "judgmental" it may be, there are a whole lot of people who won't frequent an establishment where the employees are tattooed, pierced, and dyed in extremely unconventional ways. That means employers catering to those customers are not going to hire you, even if they have no personal qualms about your appearance and even if there's nothing formal in their hiring rules about it.

You're 25 years old. If you think you are never going to change, your taste in music, your preferences in attire, your taste in food and entertainment, the type of men you date, what kind of friends you make and keep, well, all I can say is you've got a lot of surprises waiting in store for you. We ALL have "phases" we are going through. It's called LIFE. Growth brings change. If you continue to grow, I guarantee you will change your mind about LOTS of things. Personally I'm looking forward to growing into and out of a whole LOT of phases yet as I progress through life. The ones I've already outgrown are strung behind me like pearls; I'll be making new pearls and leaving them behind my entire life. I hope you do, too, whatever you feel about the pearl you're making right now. Not growing, changing, and learning would be such dreary tedium.

I'm on my fourth or fifth career change. I started out in biology and medical research, then software engineering, retired to homestead for awhile, then medical again, more homesteading, now I'm attending a doctoral program in clinical psych. Lots of pretty pearls, but I outgrew them and moved on.

From what you've written so far here, all I can say is you seem very inflexible and rigid in your thinking. You expect the world to conform to you and accept you as you are without remark or hesitation.

It just doesn't work that way.

Obviously your choice of attire and appearance is just that, YOUR choice. But do not fool yourself into thinking that when you are on the far extreme of appearance that it will not have a negative effect on your chances of finding a job in such a bad economy. And those of us who are telling you so are not fools blinded by conformism. We're women, many of us revolutionaries in our day, and some of us revolutionaries still, who have twice or three times the experience of the real world as you do, and who are trying to share some of that hard-won knowledge with an up and coming member of the sisterhood.

Nobody is telling you you can't dress and look however you want in your free time; but work time isn't free time, it's time you're getting paid, and that gives the employer a say in what is and isn't acceptable during work hours. If the job requiring dresses and 2" heels had been my only option, I'd have taken it, worn the heels and dresses - and kept looking for something else. But I'd have taken it in the meantime and CONFORMED, externally only, because that would have ultimately served MY ends.

In a GOOD economy, you've got a lot more leeway to be revolutionary in your appearance. But in a BAD economy, you'll only be hurting yourself by presenting yourself to an employer with a "Here I am, take it or leave it" attitude. As you are finding out, they're leaving it.

[crazycanuck]

IvonaDestroi-I used to walk past a park near a previous work where many pink, blue, etc haired young folks used to hang out. Emos, punks etc. I often wondered how they'd find work & what work they would do if they had to conform.

ANyways, I want to chime in & say if you can't get a job in your area right now after uni, data entry, etc will always be around. Take what you can, pay off your bills then travel. Yep, do networking!!!

(I'm back at uni & am making as many contacts in the Planning sector as possible. If you are willing to buy the contact a coffee, they might have suggestions to get into the field. I don't know how the market works in the US)

Jocelynlf post regarding moving to Aust & working-what about getting a one year work visa(is that avail to americans? I know it is for commonwealth citizens), doing backpacker type jobs(east coast might be better) & at the same time scoping the market for work in your desired area. Get some work experience first though!!!

Lastly, good luck in your job search!

PS-TE ladies will be blunt with you & as a member of the younger generation(i'm youngish too..36), don't think of it as an insult. Think about what they're saying, they've been there.

[Tuckervill]

Someone may have already said this, but we're just saying that hair color is "emblematic" of the whole appearance issue. It's just shorthand for the self-expression that Flybye described so eloquently.

You have the advantage of choice in this situation. If freedom of expression is that important to you that you would not consider changing your hair color - then be happy with that but know that there are consequences to the choice. One of those might be unemployment. Is that unemployment worth leaving the country and your family? Consider too, whether leaving will be to your advantage or to your disadvantage. I would think, and this is just an assumption, that you would be at an even greater disadvantage to finding work in another country.

And I just want to say one more thing.

"YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!"

Karen