How do I stop mashing???

[spokewench]

Long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away, we used to do downhill intervals.

Climb the hill, turn around, stay in your low gear, and pedal as fast as you can on the descent. Don't coast if you can help it, but stay in the low gear so you're just keeping tension on the chain.

The benefit of descending is that you have more gyroscopic force from the wheels than you would if you were pedaling on the flats and traveling so slowly that resistance is minimal. So it's easy to stay upright as you learn to smooth out your stroke.

Safer than motorpacing, cheaper and better scenery than rollers.

I'm with Oak Tree on this idea. This is how I improved my spin when I was first riding. I would go down a hill, not a real steep hill but a fairly low level downhill and I would put my bike in a low enough gear where if I spun, I was just not making the bike go much faster, but was spinning as fast as i could! The definition of spinning as fast as you can is, put it in a moderately low gear, spin as fast as you can without BOUNCING on the seat. The more you practice, the faster your spin will get.

Also, go up a moderate uphill, put it in a gear one or two lower than you usually ride and try to keep your spin cadence up higher than you are normally used to.

All of this takes practice, it does not happen overnight, but it will help you be a much more efficient rider.

[Jiffer]

At a club meeting recently, cadence came up. My husband talked about how doing a high cadence up hills has all of a sudden become easy for him this year, while still going the same speed he used to go or faster. The cycling coach leading the meeting said that dh's previous couple of years of slower cadence probably helped him with his pedaling technique, which now helps him efficiently spin at a higher cadence.

I would suggest you get your pedaling efficiency down before worrying about your cadence. This will ultimately help with our cadence.

Secondly, when you do work on your cadence, I would suggest just bumping it up a little at a time until you are comfortable with it. Maybe not on every ride and maybe not during the entire ride.

You've gotten good tips on working on one leg at a time. This is something I keep intending to do, but haven't yet.

[zeWoo]

I've read this entire thread and I'm still clueless...

What's mashing?

By using my keen deductive reasoning skills, I've eliminated --

Potatoes and philandering -- so you don't need to cover those, thanks

[TrekTheKaty]

= I still have to concentrate on breaking my toe-down habit, but it's easier and feels more natural to do heels down with the adjustments we made.

Is toe-down bad? I've come to understand heels-down from spinning class and it works when you need a switch.

[alpinerabbit]

Hamentashen!

Bless you!

[indigoiis]

I've read this entire thread and I'm still clueless...

What's mashing?

By using my keen deductive reasoning skills, I've eliminated --

Potatoes and philandering -- so you don't need to cover those, thanks

Perhaps when you were a kid, you rode a one or a three speed?
And you came to a hill?
And your cranks turned real slow under the weight of your entire being?

That's mashing.

[chutch]

Is toe-down bad? I've come to understand heels-down from spinning class and it works when you need a switch.

I'm no expert at all, but from my limited understanding heels-down is considered more efficient. But I think I have read that some people have a perfectly efficient pedal stroke using the toe-down method. I also had a knee pain issue and am experiencing less knee pain with the change in pedal stroke so that benefit alone makes it worth it to me.

[ny biker]

When I go in for a bike fit adjustment, the guy at the LBS always tells me heels down.

[pinkychique]

The best thing that I've found for mashing is single-speed mtb. It's kinda like the downhill drill, but on a mtb. Since you only have one speed, you are going to end up mashing up some hills, in which case you stand up, but you get a lot stronger and you learn to spin up the hills, and you spin spin spin spin fast down the downhills. Ss mtb's are great for power too

I have a fixie that I ride around school. I don't put many many miles on it, but it has DEFINITELY helped with efficiency too since you have no choice but to pedal.

[zeWoo]

Perhaps when you were a kid, you rode a one or a three speed?
And you came to a hill?
And your cranks turned real slow under the weight of your entire being?

That's mashing.

Ahhhhh, something I don't need to concern myself with, I'll come back in a year or so and ask... I guess I'm being a bit thick -- I just don't understand the nuance between mashing and spinning -- and how you go about doing(or not doing) one or the other ... which I take it is explained in this thread in detail -- In other words, it's not that I don't know the answer... it's that I don't understand the question...I think I need pictures...

Touche.

[spokewench]

Ahhhhh, something I don't need to concern myself with, I'll come back in a year or so and ask... I guess I'm being a bit thick -- I just don't understand the nuance between mashing and spinning -- and how you go about doing(or not doing) one or the other ... which I take it is explained in this thread in detail -- In other words, it's not that I don't know the answer... it's that I don't understand the question...I think I need pictures...

Touche.

Spinning - a pedal cadence of 90 rpm (revolutions per minute) and more

Mashing - a pedal cadence of 90 rpms and less.

That is as technical as I can get

spoke

[pinkbikes]

Spinning - a pedal cadence of 90 rpm (revolutions per minute) and more

Mashing - a pedal cadence of 90 rpms and less.

That is as technical as I can get

spoke

Not QUITE that simple - there are people who can spin slower than 90rpm.


zeWoo, I think what you're looking for is this...

Mashing is when you stomp on the pedals like you're walking up stairs! So you are only using the "down" part of the stroke with any power. When you get clipless pedals or toe clips you can pull up too but still mash because you are still only using the vertical parts of the stroke.

Spinning is about using your muscles to make sure that you are using the full circular revolution to push the bike forward. So this means you do push down at that part of the stroke, but you also pull up on the up part of the stroke, push forward over the top of the pedal stroke and drag back as your foot goes through the bottom of the stroke (or instead of stroke I should really say circle).

This is why all these helpful people suggest one-legged drills which show you how to smooth out your muscles in each leg to deliver your power nice and smoothly through all these parts of the circle your foot is moving in. And when you get it nice and smooth you can spin at higher cadences for longer and get more for less!

Funnily enough, I first learnt about spinning by reading Trixie Belden books when I was a teenager! The characters in the book went on a biking tour and one of the boys took the girls aside and told them about "ankling" which is the process of flexing your foot as you pedal (upward as you go through the top of the stroke and downward as you go through the bottom of the stroke) to enxtend the range of the circle through which you have pressure on the pedals. Wonder what Nancy Drew taught me???

This is a good foundation for spinning as it starts you using more of the circle. I recently did a ten day tour on a tandem with my ten year-old daughter and her mashing drove me nuts for the first day or two, as it really reverberates through the bike. I had plenty of time to chat with her about it (!?) so I talked to her about mashing and spinning. As it turned out the most effective way for her to stop mashing was for her to think about "doing circles" with her feet. In no time she was spinning like a beaut and anytime I got that stomping kind of feeling coming through, I would just say "circles" and she'd smooth it out.

I think a lot of the mashing vs spinning switch mechanism is in the mind! And the rest is muscle memory. Don't wait to try it - try it now and get good habits from the start and then you won't have to undo the mashing issues!

[OakLeaf]

Ha ha, I KNEW I didn't dream that I'd read back in the '80s someone saying that you were SUPPOSED to ankle!

I've been working on un-learning that for the past about 4,000 miles. Old habits sure do die hard!

[aicabsolut]

Ha ha, I KNEW I didn't dream that I'd read back in the '80s someone saying that you were SUPPOSED to ankle!

I've been working on un-learning that for the past about 4,000 miles. Old habits sure do die hard!

Why are you trying not to ankle? Some people will have a little more heel drop near the bottom of the stroke than others (more ankle movement), but in order to spin smoothly through the circle, your ankle has to move to keep constant force on the pedal. The only time I lock my ankles is in a sprint or anytime I want to try to eke out a few more rpms. When I'm already well over 100rpms, locking the ankles can get you to spin a little faster because it eliminates a little bit of wasted energy and wobble in the ankle....but I don't do it for long. I'm still far from using my legs like pistons at that point.

[pinkbikes]

Why are you trying not to ankle? Some people will have a little more heel drop near the bottom of the stroke than others (more ankle movement), but in order to spin smoothly through the circle, your ankle has to move to keep constant force on the pedal. The only time I lock my ankles is in a sprint or anytime I want to try to eke out a few more rpms. When I'm already well over 100rpms, locking the ankles can get you to spin a little faster because it eliminates a little bit of wasted energy and wobble in the ankle....but I don't do it for long. I'm still far from using my legs like pistons at that point.

I hear you! I think I'm almost never not ankling just a little. I probably exaggerated it a bit more when I was learning and when I need to drill it a little (I get a little mashy sometimes on the MTB) but the rest of the time it's just a gentle ankling through the circle. Sometimes a little heel down on the entry to the bottom of the stroke to get just a little more pull through if I'm going up a hill too!

I have heard about shifting the cleats a little further back on the shoe and riding a little more "heels down" if you have serious problems with calf cramps. One of the guys I ride with has done this with some succes. But I don't think it would be really comfortable to stay in one locked position all the time if all else is well?