Unfairly target

[Kalidurga]

I've been following this thread the past few days and one thing has kind of struck me in the conversation.

People have mentioned that it's very generous of Team Estrogen to have created a forum on their dime. Other people have compared the feel at this forum to other cycling boards. What seems to be being overlooked is that this message board is not affiliated with a group or organization, it is affiliated with an on-line store. Personally, I'm impressed not by the fact that they created a free message board, but by the fact that they felt it benefited the forum to create a FS section.

Amongst the many functions that it serves for us, this message board is a marketing tool for TE. While the FS posts in question in this thread are for an item category that TE doesn't sell (bikes), other items have been posted that could be considered to be in direct conflict with the Team Estrogen on-line store. To me, that's what's generous of the TE folks, that they don't seem to be highly concerned about that competition and apparently willingly created a place for board members to trade and sell used items, many of which are from the same categories as the TE store. While I don't feel strongly one way or the other about the specific situation in this thread (though I will say the original post reminded me a teeny bit of Smurf's recent hurt feelings/I'm leaving post), I do think that says something about the character of the people running both the on-line store and the forum.

[tantrumbean]

Amongst the many functions that it serves for us, this message board is a marketing tool for TE.

Exactly, it's a marketing tool - therefore I'm sure TE have looked very closely at how the forum benefits them as a company. If there was any danger of the FS section having a serious impact on their profits, I suspect it would not be here. However, chances are the benefits of people attracted to the forum partly by the FS section far outweigh any potentially lost sales. Afaic it's no different to companies giving away freebies - they might have sold those items instead, but gain more in the long run by giving away a certain amount of goods for free.

I haven't got a problem with that, at the end of the day, it's perfectly clear when you sign up that the forum is affiliated to a store, you know what you get - I'm just too cynical to take it at face value and believe it's all just a random act of kindness.

[Selkie]

I'm curious about one thing: IIRC and excepting the recent used/unused bike that someone never took out of the box , the OP's numerous bike FS ads have promised that the bikes are 'professionally boxed' prior to shipment. If the OP's shop is boxing the bike and charging for it, then the FS ads are in violation of the Forum rules. Therefore, this is not "personal," it's a matter of abiding by the guidelines, which is a reasonable expectation of anyone making use of a free service.

I still wonder why the OP would threaten to leave the board because of this. I'm sure others have had posts removed, for whatever reason, and remained active members. It's also very troubling that the OP would take this public & accuse others of "targeting" her, knowing that it would potentially make the Admins look unreasonable.

[jobob]

Precisely.

[alpinerabbit]

+1

And now folks, move on, after 45 posts, there's nothing more to see here....

[ilima]

I'm curious about one thing: IIRC and excepting the recent used/unused bike that someone never took out of the box , the OP's numerous bike FS ads have promised that the bikes are 'professionally boxed' prior to shipment. If the OP's shop is boxing the bike and charging for it, then the FS ads are in violation of the Forum rules. Therefore, this is not "personal," it's a matter of abiding by the guidelines, which is a reasonable expectation of anyone making use of a free service.

I still wonder why the OP would threaten to leave the board because of this. I'm sure others have had posts removed, for whatever reason, and remained active members. It's also very troubling that the OP would take this public & accuse others of "targeting" her, knowing that it would potentially make the Admins look unreasonable.

That's your interpretation. I wouldn't think it strange at all if a private "personal" party selling a bike paid to have it professionally packaged to ensure it would survive the trip via UPS or FedEx. Just seems prudent and not "commercial" to me.

Take a look at ebay, for example. It's common sense to pay someone to pack up an expensive item professionally.

I find this whole thread rather strange. And I agree with tantrumbean that it's very weird the way people are jumping on the "follow the rules" bandwagon. Americans (and I am one) are just plain weird about "rules."

[Veronica]

If you had a guest in your home and you had asked them to stop swearing in front of your children and they didn't, what would you do?

This forum is not ours. It belongs to TE. We are guests in their "home" and as such we need to abide by their rules.

Veronica

[SadieKate]

And if prior to holding a private conversation, they publicly berated you for asking you not to swear in front of their children, what would you do?

My teacher father always swore that he ran a democratic classroom with full freedom of choice. You could do what he said or get out. I'm an American and not weird about "rules" when in someone else's business, home, classroom, etc. It's simple courtesy and respect to obide by them.

[Mr. Bloom]

This forum is not ours. It belongs to TE. We are guests in their "home" and as such we need to abide by their rules.

There's an additional consideration:

• The Admins have a life! Let's not impose an unnecessary burden on them by pushing the envelope.

This group generally does a good job of self-policing the debates...and frankly I'm concerned that Susan felt in a position to have to actually defend her actions in the debate. JMHO

[jobob]

I find this whole thread rather strange.

That, I will agree with you.

Actually I will go as far to say that I find this thread disturbing and downright disgusting.

And I agree with tantrumbean that it's very weird the way people are jumping on the "follow the rules" bandwagon. Americans (and I am one) are just plain weird about "rules."

Well, that's where you lost me.

It's not rules, it's courtesy.
It's consideration.
It's respect.

You think that's weird?

Well, then maybe you would be happier at another forum.

[Cataboo]

I think you're all weird that we should have 4 pages of people going back on this. And I don't think this thread should degenerate to suggesting other people need to find another forum as well.

Yes, this forum is a courtesy provided by team estrogen that I'm quite happy to have found and be on - but let's not forget that this forum also brings team estrogen quite a lot in terms of customers and advertising. Many women who would not necessarily have found team estrogen for buying clothing or whatever (because... the prices are often the same as the local bike shop or rei... the selection is definitely better), have found this forum through searching on the internet looking for comfortable saddle reviews or something like that... have found the forum to be a great resource, and have thus chose to support team estrogen's store. And I think it's a great strategy by the owners of team estrogen - they provide a service to the community and build a base of customers simultaneously.

As for biking selling, I really am not bothered too much either way. I like for old bikes to get recycled to new owners that would be happy to love them. I bought a frame off here that I'm quite happy with. It does say in the rules no commercial postings - but I know I've posted a couple of times items that were going to end up on ebay if I don't sell them here and stated it. Does that make me a commercial seller? I don't buy anything specifically to resell on here or ebay, but I do try to clear out stuff that I'm not using and I'm usually happy to break even or lose a little bit. If my sister wants to sell her old bike rack - can I post it on here, or should I have her make a new account, make at least 10 posts so you guys know who she is and then post it to sell?

[jobob]

It does say in the rules no commercial postings - but I know I've posted a couple of times items that were going to end up on ebay if I don't sell them here and stated it. Does that make me a commercial seller?

You're losing sight of what started all this in the first place. You're talking about selling a few of your own things here.

If I understand it correctly, the OP has been selling items on behalf of other people, many things, and thus acting as a dealer.

Like you pointed out, it says in the forum rules no commercial postings. According to her own posts, a couple of pages back ,Susan did discuss the matter with the OP (contrary to the OP's assertions).

But the OP didn't like Susan's decision. Apparently the OP didn't think the forum policy should apply to her, so she went to the forum to try to paint Susan as unfair and unresponsive. Those of us who know Susan (even only slightly, like myself), know that she is neither.

Some of us, myself included, have been up in arms about this it is because we admire and respect Susan and deeply appreciate what she is doing for the women's cycling community by hosting this forum. Jeff and Susan set up some forum rules and policies with the assumption that posters would act like grownups and accept those policies as a condition of being here. The only condition of being here.

Speaking only for myself, I'm dismayed at how easily some people here are willing to disregard and second-guess and re-interpret the requests of our hosts. Jeff and Susan deserve better.

[ilima]

That, I will agree with you.

Actually I will go as far to say that I find this thread disturbing and downright disgusting.



Well, that's where you lost me.

It's not rules, it's courtesy.
It's consideration.
It's respect.

You think that's weird?

Well, then maybe you would be happier at another forum.

Who exactly do you think you are to tell me to go to another forum?

Yes, I realize Susan/te provides this forum and others volunteer to be moderators. For that I am grateful.

But I was also under the impression this was a community. A community with fluid boundaries of decorum.

You are exactly the type of "rules" person I find baffling. The type that doesn't realize that rules are never meant to apply to 100% of situations. Rules are meant to apply to the vast majority of situations, but not all. And that's the problem.

Rules folks like yourself think they are black and white "well it says right here" without even trying to logically think about said rule. Sometimes rules need interpretation (hello Supreme Court for an example!).

I like the genial demeanor of this forum. But I have found this thread strange in many ways.

I have always been very happy with the customer service from te and will continue to order from here (although it's been quite a few months). Perhaps I will stick to RBR, though.

[SadieKate]

I like the genial demeanor of this forum. But I have found this thread strange in many ways.

But isn't that the point? It wasn't "genial" of the OP to attack her host. I kinda like the rule that says you don't attack your host unless they are about to commit bodily harm.

I don't know any other specifics about the OP's behavior except what's been posted, but I did witness the lack of courtesy by the OP - and I'm really surprised at the people who seem to think this is acceptable.