Measuring sit bones--is my yoga mat defective?

[Miranda]

Hi Ana... OK, first of all, ditch that ball chair to sit on for the measurement.

I don't know if you saw any of my blab about sitz bones, saddle pain, bike fit, my wretched seat post design, etc. in your search but I am still looking for my saddle.

Part of my issue, well I hope it corrects 90th percentile of issues, is my bike doesn't fit. Have you had a "good" fit? And by "good" I don't mean one of those idiotic places that tells you "oh, looky honey, you can clear the top tube, it's a girly bike--you are a girly-yes?, then it fits--hooray". *pauses to vomit seething bile* (this was IME pre-days of finding TE of course)

Is the saddle put on *level*? Like with an actual tool that shows such. My stupid one bolt tounge-n-groove seat post would tend to shift one groove either way after I rode (even with really ratching it down) and un-leveled many saddles. It wasn't just my hand strength as a women either...

There is a thread I have in bike maint. about it. A couple peeps said even their lbs mechanics had an ill word for that design. That is on my list of bike hates for future buying.

I drove a ways to the Specialized dealer to get their sitz bones tests. Next closest town over from Mayberry got the Bontrager seat. I sat on that too. I used Play-dough with plastic wrap on the top and bottom. I also used a Pillsbury ready made pie crust dough rolled out between plastic wrap and waxed paper.

The bare hard top of a toliet seat is a good tip (take off the funky fuzzy lid cover of course if you own one). I did have a small step stool. If you have steps and they are carpeted, you can put something hard over the carpet. A bigger cutting board... metal cookie sheet, etc.

The cement stoop step to my fronch porch worked well. The tip you got about sitting on it just for feel first is good. Then set up your measurement mold stuff.

Also, if there is a way to wedge your hands underneath what you seating on and sorta pull your weight down, then hold, it helps to make the impression. Sit there holding the place until it starts to almost hurt (sorta like the saddle pain). Then, measure.

Lastly, if you use my pressue pulling technique to deepen your sitz bone dents... remember the soft glute tissue will spread out more... HOWEVER, the highest point of the sitz bone tip meausrement should remain unchanged. It doesn't matter how much the tissue mushes out, or there is of it, the bone structure itself is constant.

Good Luck!

[lph]

good tips all around, and I would add - have a pen ready. And maybe a helpful friend. As soon as you remove yourself from whatever you're sitting on, feel around and pinpoint the deepest part of the probably rather large indentations you've made, and mark them with a pen. When I did this with paper on a yoga mat the indentations would disappear within seconds and be impossible to mark off. I also repeated the measurements several times, and reckoned an average.

[OakLeaf]

+1 on marking the paper, but I outlined the whole indentation as well as marking the deepest points. That gave me a record of the shape and slant of my sit bones as well as the distance between them.

Then I took the paper saddle shopping. Laying it over a saddle could tell me pretty quickly which saddles I shouldn't even bother trying.

And make sure you're putting enough weight on your butt. You didn't say what you're using for a hard surface, but if you're trying to sit on the floor with your legs extended, your legs will be taking a lot of your weight. A hard toilet seat is a good idea!

[aicabsolut]

Be sure you put it on a raised surface (like a chair or bench), sit and lean forward. When you lean forward, your sit bones will poke through more to make the indentations more clear.

I think you have the right size, though. When the saddle is too wide, you will have chafing problems from the sides of the saddle or your hips may rock. When the saddle is too narrow, you will have more soft tissue pain and pressure on the pubis, because not enough of your weight is supported by your sit bones. Sit bone pain only, though, indicates that you probably have the right size. It can take time to break in the saddle (and your butt). I do agree that more padding isn't necessarily good, but often too much padding causes different problems than what you're experiencing.

You may want to play with the angle of the saddle to see if that makes a difference.

[Eden]

I was thinking the same thing as AB and Alpinerabbit - you sit bones are what you want in contact with the saddle, so pressure on them is normal and even desirable - but severe pain after 20 min doesn't sound right either.... Butt break in usually feels more like really tender when you first sit back on the saddle the day after a long ride then goes away after a few minutes back on the bike. (And eventually stops happening altogether)

I'm wondering if the saddle is just a little too narrow and your sit bones, while still in contact with the saddle and protecting your soft tissue, are trying to slide off of the edges?

[Ana]

I'm wondering if the saddle is just a little too narrow and your sit bones, while still in contact with the saddle and protecting your soft tissue, are trying to slide off of the edges?

Well, I'm beginning to wonder if my saddle is not too narrow as well, now... Where, exactly, are your sit bones supposed to rest on the saddle? How close to the medial line?

When I got measured for my saddle at the LBS where I purchased my bike (I have since decided they do not fit my needs in terms of knowledge, effectiveness, and friendliness), I sat on the butt-o-meter and the guy grabbed that thing from under me so fast once I got up, I couldnt' believe it! He tilted it so I could not see it and fiddled with it for a while before he told me he thought I was a 130. Now, if I am "between" sizes on my measurement, is it better to go a size up?

Several TE'ers have complained about the Jett being too hard. I love my Specialized Avatar saddle. I noticed you said 130mm. Many people average 145mm so is there a chance you could borrow one in that width and give it a whirl? Just to see? As for the Terry saddle, many of her saddles come in a pear shape. Even though it may be the right width, it may be the wrong shape for you. I always had pain on the inside of my sit bones with her saddles. I guess the saddle sloped too much and I need a flatter type saddle--hence the Avatar.

If any of you TE'ers could spare a T-shaped 143 saddle, I will pay the shipping to me and back to you! (If you want it back)

I will definitely look into a 143 I browsed through so many other saddle threads and I saw that there are supposed to be about 1cm in each side of your sit bone measurement?

I cannot tell you how much this input helps me. Saddle searching is so difficult to begin with that having the wrong width just complicates things. It is so frustrating when bicycle salesmen (it was the owner who was helping me.....) think it's okay to sell you things that you don't need or that are wrong for you.

sigh

The search for a saddle continues... I would loooove to find one of those that "disappears" while I ride! That would be a dream!

Here is a picture of the Jett. I think my sitbones hit the saddle at the pink circles: not exactly in the middle of the seamed space but a little towards the outside.

[tzvia]

Ana,
I would guess that as long as your sit-bones are on the padded parts and not on the hard edges, it would be a good size. Saddles are made for a range of sizes, hence the generous padded areas. The next larger size may be too big and interfere with pedaling motion. But as we all know, there is more to comfort than fit. I could not get the Jett saddle comfortable no matter what I did. I raised the nose, lowered the nose, double checked the fore-aft and seat height; I ended up frustrated with it and ditched it for an Aspide Glamor. Sometimes the extra padding is just not comfortable. I think it was just not supporting me properly. The Aspide Glamor has no cutout and is thinly padded and you would think it would be painful looking at it. But for me, it was fine, but a little flexy so I kept looking

I have since bought a Bontrager saddle (they have a 90 day unconditional return so I thought 'what the heck'). They have several models, and I went with the RXL, which again has no cutout, thin padding, and has firm support (carbon shell). It does not look as comfortable as the Jet, but it is night and day for me- When I die, I am going to be buried with that saddle!

[Ana]

Hi Ana... OK, first of all, ditch that ball chair to sit on for the measurement.

Good Luck!

Oh no, I am not using my ball chair to measure my sit bones! I was just pointing out that I don't have a hard-surfaced chair.

Thank you for the tips!

I also repeated the measurements several times, and reckoned an average.

You sound like a scientist--I can appreciate that

Be sure you put it on a raised surface (like a chair or bench), sit and lean forward. When you lean forward, your sit bones will poke through more to make the indentations more clear.

I think you have the right size, though. When the saddle is too wide, you will have chafing problems from the sides of the saddle or your hips may rock. When the saddle is too narrow, you will have more soft tissue pain and pressure on the pubis, because not enough of your weight is supported by your sit bones. Sit bone pain only, though, indicates that you probably have the right size. It can take time to break in the saddle (and your butt). I do agree that more padding isn't necessarily good, but often too much padding causes different problems than what you're experiencing.

You may want to play with the angle of the saddle to see if that makes a difference.

I'll try the leaning forward thing Yeah, I think I have the right size but the pain is so different from my previous saddle I am going to give it a chance and try to break it in, though

I am also playing with the saddle tilt a bit. I am trying to figure out what that "butt support" thing is all about. I am just not sure whether I have it because my sensations of the saddle are overwhelmingly of the pain in my sitbones. I have a 2-bolt system so it's pretty good. I usually put a book on top of the saddle and see if it's level (although I don't actually own a level so it's not that exact).