Dog owners: do any of you feed raw?

[Tuckervill]

they don't have a strong thirst reflex. They do have a thirst reflex.
Domestic cats have several problems that are caused/exacerbated by not drinking enough, including urinary disorders and kidney failure.

Oh, I guess I didn't remember the adjective by the time I got around to posting a response.

I know about cats having kidney problems. My cats seem to want to drink every day, so I don't worry about them.

Karen

[Eden]

RE - poultry bones, like turkey neck. I have no idea of the truth of this, but I read that cooking is what makes poultry bones prone to splinter and that raw bones are OK for animals to eat. I have not been brave enough to give my kitties any turkey necks to gnaw as my little one tends to try to swallow things whole....

[ccnyc]

Questions: Those of you grinding your own food, do you include the skin and bones? Did you buy a standard meat grinder for the task? Do you include any veggies or starch (like cooked rice) or just the meat? What supplements do you give? With raw meat, are you concerned about salmonella, e-coli and othe nasty things?

When I grind chicken or cornish game hen I grind it all - skin, bones, organs, neck. It is nutritionally balanced re calcium phosphorus ratio. Meat from large animals with bones too hard to grind like beef and lamb need to have calcium added to balance the high phosphorus in the meat.

I have a Maverick grinder like Mimi, although mine is 9 years old. It's a great grinder. You can't just use any grinder. Some of the more powerful ones don't grind bones very well.
This is supposed to be a very good grinder also.
http://www.onestopjerkyshop.com/prod...products_id=47

I don't include any starch/grain because cats don't have any need for them. (I've read that dogs can utilize nutrients from grain.) I include a small amount of veggie as a fiber source.

In the 9 years I've been preparing the raw diet I've never had any problems with the cats, or myself, getting sick from the raw food.

If anyone wants further info on raw diets for cats http://holisticat.com/ is a great resource. So is their forum.

Carol

[ccnyc]

RE - poultry bones, like turkey neck. I have no idea of the truth of this, but I read that cooking is what makes poultry bones prone to splinter and that raw bones are OK for animals to eat. I have not been brave enough to give my kitties any turkey necks to gnaw as my little one tends to try to swallow things whole....

It's true. Cooked bones splinter. Raw bones are fine to eat. One of my cats swallowed a 2 inch piece of chicken neck! I was shocked. He hates to chew bones. He was fine. I guess a cats highly acidic stomach acid took care of the neck.

Carol

[PamNY]

Thanks for the interesting (and non woo-woo) discussion. Thanks also for posting links, all of which seemed useful when I looked at them. I am especially interested in hearing about dogs who started acting "middle-aged" again. I've heard that over and over.

Now I just have to figure out how to do this in my home. I don't eat meat, and find it unpleasant, but at least with raw you are spared the smell of cooking. I really like the idea of grinding, though not the idea of paying $200 for a grinder.
I wonder if I can get a butcher to grind up chickens -- guess I'll find out if I ask.

Pam

[Biciclista]

I wonder if I can get a butcher to grind up chickens -- guess I'll find out if I ask.

Pam

I thought i'd get my local butcher to do that for me too. I can't remember why he wouldn't but he had a LOT of reasons. It would be hard for me to do if I didn't like meat. I like the smell of fresh chicken so that part is pleasurable for me.

[badger]

When I first got my dog, it took me quite a few months to figure out how to control his colitis. I debated the raw food diet, but was told that he'll most likely get worse before he gets better, so I never tried him on it. He was on Gastro, a specialized diet from the vet for the rest of his life (both wet and dry). He lived to about 13-14.

I'd love to try raw/home made food for my obese kitty. I wouldn't be surprised if his aggressive behaviour gets better.

Are there any health issues in buying already ground chicken from a grocery store, or do you grind yourself due to cost saving measures?

[Andrea]

I could be wrong, but I'm inclined to think that grinding at home is important in order to prevent bacteria contamination.

[Biciclista]

The ground chicken at the supermarket does not contain bones or organ meats. (or skin probably) all of which are important to a carnivore's diet. That's why we don't use it. It's probably fine bacteria wise or they wouldn't be selling it to people.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Isn't salmonella a fairly regular problem in raw chicken? (or am I just thinking of raw eggs?). If so, doesn't it affect dogs and cats if they ingest stuff with salmonella? Humans usually cook chicken before eating it, and that destroys the salmonella, right?
I'm just curious.

[Eden]

Isn't salmonella a fairly regular problem in raw chicken? (or am I just thinking of raw eggs?). If so, doesn't it affect dogs and cats if they ingest stuff with salmonella? Humans usually cook chicken before eating it, and that destroys the salmonella, right?
I'm just curious.

They evolved eating raw meat (and entrails!) Cats and dogs have a shorter, and I believe more acidic, digestive system than humans and they rarely have any effects at all from salmonella or ecoli, unless they are immuno-compromised. If you feed raw you have to be careful managing their waste as it is possible that it might be contaminated with those bugs, (like you would want to not be careful about handling poo.....) but many people feed raw and you don't hear about them being sick all of the time.

If it really worries you, you can put a whole chicken in boiling water for a short dip to kill the pathogens on the outside, but leave it for the most part raw - as far as I know that's where things like salmonella and ecoli live. That's why eating a rare steak is just fine, but hamburger is a bad idea- with the hamburg you've taken the outside and ground it all up putting it inside...

Now parasites are a different matter - cats and dogs can get stuff like giardia and it will affect them. I would guess that raw pork (because of trichinosis) probably should not be on the menu for either of them.

[nancielle]

I don't do a full raw diet with Chloe; she showed no interest in many of the foods offered to her. Because she is intolerant of grains, she's fed a grain free kibble (and was fussy about the different ones tried.) Her scratching was eliminated when grain based food was removed. She does get some raw meals and bones (she loves chicken and turkey necks.) I also do some home-cooked meals for her as well.

Hunter (the cat) showed w a y too much interest in her raw food (seriously I never even considered raw for him. Don't know why.) So now I make sure I have enough for him to share in as well. He especially likes beef and makes a little chirping noise as he eats. He also drinks a lot. He especially likes splashing water from Chloe's bowl.

[tulip]

For now I feed dry food to my dog, with a raw beef bone every few days, but I mix the dry food with 1/2 cup of warm water. He seems to like it, and I know he's getting water that way. I also put a bit of flax seed oil in his food. His coat was pretty frazzled when I got him. It's getting really glossy.

[roadie gal]

I also put a bit of flax seed oil in his food. His coat was pretty frazzled when I got him. It's getting really glossy.

In the winter both of my dogs tend to get dry skin. I give them salmon oil, about 1/2-1tsp in their food.

[mtbdarby]

Pam - you can buy the meat already ground with the bones in. My vet sells it in either patties or a 2 pound log. Your choice of beef, chicken or lamb (smells the worst!). They also sell a bag of rice with a packet of nutrients that aren't in the ground meat and instructions on how to cook it and store it.

Lisa - dogs don't get salmonella like we do but you do need to wash their bowls after feeding them raw food so bacteria doesn't grow.

I fed both dogs raw food but obviously didn't grind it myself. I barely had the time to cook it and freeze it since I'd make a big batch for both dogs and it only has a few days shelf life in the fridge. I did it for about a year and saw great improvements in my dogs by I feel the damage had already been done with commercial food. I stopped doing it after I lost one of my dogs and during the year I did, I supplimented with an all natural dry food. These days I use the all natural dry food with some people food - brown rice, veggies, fruits, and cottage cheese on occasion.

If you want the brand of the ground meat I'd be happy to make a call for you.