STA & Cranks

[Crankin]

My guy insisted I get a 170 when I got my Kuota. I had only had 165s on my other bikes. One ride on the 170s told me no way. I felt like I was mashing the whole time. He thought it would give me power. I said, "You have to have power to get power."
Seriously, I am barely 5' 1" and have a 28.5 inseam. There is a reason small bikes come with small cranks.

[Miranda]

My guy insisted I get a 170 when I got my Kuota. I had only had 165s on my other bikes. One ride on the 170s told me no way. I felt like I was mashing the whole time. He thought it would give me power. I said, "You have to have power to get power."
Seriously, I am barely 5' 1" and have a 28.5 inseam. There is a reason small bikes come with small cranks.

Thx for that post. I read in the fit link I posted about the arguments for diff crank sizes... being what you are saying from your fit guy. The longer crank will give you more power 'supposedly'... but, I agree with you (and that is what this article was saying). There are things about my body that are not designed to 'mash'. My heart muscle can take more effort to spin. I didn't really think/ask about it at the time to the fitter. Too many other things swirling around my head. But, I will. Appreciate the input.

[tulip]

While I think it's very good that you are delving in so deep into the geometry, eventually you will need to just ride a bunch of different bikes and see which ones are comfy and which are not (and try to note what is different about each). At the very least, you will be able to translate all that geometry into real bikefeel, which in the end is all that matters.

[Miranda]

While I think it's very good that you are delving in so deep into the geometry, eventually you will need to just ride a bunch of different bikes and see which ones are comfy and which are not (and try to note what is different about each). At the very least, you will be able to translate all that geometry into real bikefeel, which in the end is all that matters.

That is problem #1... Finding something remotely close to what I want in my size at a shop. I have started calling some out of town shops too. Even one in a larger city for sure I thought would carry my size did not. It's not just low winter stock either. They said they do not stock it standardly *ever*. Of course any shop is happy to order it for you... with the idea that you are going to buy it. Mail order bride deal. Tulip, as I read your story of finding your Luna you wrote about in Ana's thread, I sat at my computer shaking my head thinking... "man, GF, you got lucky!". It's like your Luna found you... it was destiny. Me, on the other hand, hasn't gotten there yet *sigh*.

[OakLeaf]

For me, crankarm length has to do with the angle of my knee at the top of the pedal stroke. Too far flexed and I get kneecap tracking problems. If I'm going to be able to reach the pedal at the bottom of the stroke, then I need 165s. Your fitter should be able to measure your knee angle at the top of your pedal stroke and give you an idea of whether it might cause trouble, and if so, whether it can be remedied by setback or a different STA, or whether you need shorter cranks. That's how I'd discuss it with the fitter if it was me, in any case.

My 50 cm bike came with 170s and I swapped the cranks. I have short femurs.

[Miranda]

For me, crankarm length has to do with the angle of my knee at the top of the pedal stroke. Too far flexed and I get kneecap tracking problems. If I'm going to be able to reach the pedal at the bottom of the stroke, then I need 165s. Your fitter should be able to measure your knee angle at the top of your pedal stroke and give you an idea of whether it might cause trouble, and if so, whether it can be remedied by setback or a different STA, or whether you need shorter cranks. That's how I'd discuss it with the fitter if it was me, in any case.

My 50 cm bike came with 170s and I swapped the cranks. I have short femurs.

Oakleaf... that is good to know. I had knee pain before when my stroke was too far forward. I do know what that feels like. Plus, it gives me some things to discuss with the fitter. Thx.

[tulip]

I would not have bought that particular pre-built Luna without riding it. I just happened to be in the same place as the bike, so it worked out. I would (and eventually will) order another Luna from Margo from afar. This one will be custom made for me. Don't start yet, Margo, I have a kitchen to finish paying for!

I don't know what to tell you about trying bikes. If you get to the point of knowing all the geometry, you can really narrow it down. But I would still want to ride a few before I spent money on a bike.

In any case, you are really gaining alot of knowledge so that when you DO find bikes to ride, you will be armed with great information, maybe even more than the salesperson!

[Miranda]

I would not have bought that particular pre-built Luna without riding it. I just happened to be in the same place as the bike, so it worked out. I would (and eventually will) order another Luna from Margo from afar. This one will be custom made for me. Don't start yet, Margo, I have a kitchen to finish paying for!

I don't know what to tell you about trying bikes. If you get to the point of knowing all the geometry, you can really narrow it down. But I would still want to ride a few before I spent money on a bike.

In any case, you are really gaining alot of knowledge so that when you DO find bikes to ride, you will be armed with great information, maybe even more than the salesperson!

Thx Tulip. Unfortunately I bought my current road bike before finding TE. Since the TE discovery, my brain has been like a bike info sponge.

Before this post, I actually spent some time on Margo's site reading all the 411. Even though I'm fit-able to a stock, I have started to see why later some peeps go custom. One bike has maybe 2 out of 3 things you really need, but not them all... or the like. That's where components/etc. switching out make the fit by judge of the fitter/rider.

Part of my issue now is lack of knowledge--to my own true preference. While I know part of the things I want my future ride to have (or not), I don't know them all. Like... would I truly prefer my frame to be more stiff and responsive... or stable, plush. That I have to sort out still.

What Margo says about going back for adjustments, in comparison to the frame being built specifically to you square one, makes sense to me now.

I'm going to keep searching for my test rides. Actually, I think I will try contacting someone at the manufacturer level and see what they would suggest. Mine can not be a unique problem.

[Cataboo]

I'm 5'1, with a 29 or so inch inseam? I never thought I had long arms, but my top tube lengths are around 540, which seems to be longer than most of you guy's ... And I ride fairly upright...


Summary - I like 165 cranks, my knees hate 170 cranks, and I prefer 73 degree seat angles to 73.5 or 74... and I'm still usually using setback seatposts and my seats all the way back. If I don't put my seat all the way back with a 74 or 73.5 seat angle, my knee seems to have to go above the horizontal to pedal, and I end up sitting off the back end of my seat to try to get to a comfortable knee position.

I have 3 road bikes - the 43 cm surly pacer has a 74 degree seat angle... I currently have the seat all the way back with a set back seatpost & 170 mm cranks on it. I hate the 170's... I can ride them, but I definitely feel it in my knees when I'm geared to high. I just bought it 165 mm cranks. I think I have a 120 cm stem on that because it's got a short top tube.

I've got a carbon park pre frame that has about a 45 cm seatpost (it's supposed to be a virtual 53 cm, but I definitely don't ride it like that), with a 73 degree seat angle, that I love... I like having the 73, and I've got 165 mm cranks on it. I still have a setback on the seatpost, but I don't think I've got the seat all the way back.

I've got a marin vernoa that's about 49 cm frame (probably a 45 cm seatpost actually) with a 73.5 cm seat angle - again, 165 cm cranks & seatpost all the way back on a setback seatpost ... My bf has the same frame (he rides it with the seatpost way up, i have mine way down)... and 170 cm cranks. I definitely do not like the 170's... my knees feel it very quickly.

[GLC1968]

Hi Miranda -

You sound similiar to me. I have short femurs (short legs, actually) and had some issues with finding the right geometry bike. I would walk into bike shops and they would take one look at me and put me on a 52cm bike which was WAY too big for me. I've got short legs, a long torso BUT, short arms...so while the geometry of the men's bikes were probably close for me...they were all too big and I couldn't even find one to test ride.

Anyway, I did what you are doing - tons of research based on what I could learn here at TE, what the geometry of my first two bikes were (I tried two - a 49cm men's Fuji and a 44cm WSD Specialized), and what I was reading everywhere. I was determined to get the best possible bike for me because I was tired of 'almost' fititng bikes. I ended up ordering a 19" Terry Isis (the 2005 model that is TI) from the website. I figured I was 'safe' giving it a shot since she gives 30 days to try it out. My STA is 74 and I still need a zero set back seat post to get my short femurs over the crank correctly. My saddle is just forward of center on the seat post, too. BUT, my longer torso leaves me a bit too cramped in this position, so I needed a longer stem (110) AND a shallow reach handlebar (to accomodate the short arms). I had my fancy fitting about 6 months after I got the bike and I was just terrified that she was going to tell me that my bike was all wrong (and I'd fallen in love with it by then). Turns out, she gave me a gold star for getting the best possible stock frame for me.

My fitter did mention that while I clearly had the strength/power to kick it with 170mm cranks, my leg dimensions would not allow it. Thankfully actually, since my bike came stock with 165's. I've since set up my commuter bike to the exact same dimensions (it's also a Terry) and they both fit extremely well.

Of course, then I read Margo's site and now I cannot wait until I've got the cash to go full custom. I'll still keep my TI Isis until the end of time though - I love it so much.

Two dimensions I left out: I'm 5'4" and a 19" Terry is about a 48cm...