Driving:when will you stop?

[shootingstar]

Just found out my father had his driver's license renewed after he got himself retested. He will be 80 next month. Been driving since his mid-30's. For past few years he has quietly and voluntarily withdrawn from driving in situations that he feels abit less comfortable due to age: ie. he no longer drives at night, no longer on expressways and high speed major highways and no longer out of town. He does live in a city of 2 million people.

We are secretly glad he has quietly and voluntarily withdrawing himself slowly from driving all the time/alot. He has no respiratory nor heart problems at this time. He is mobile and only requires reading glasses.

It got me thinking: As cyclists, we might tend to pride ourselves as being independent and free on our choice transportation. Same perhaps for those of us who are car drivers.

So when do you think you would stop driving when you get quite old? On doctor's/family's orders? Or voluntarily withdraw?

[Deborajen]

That's a good question - I've been giving it a lot of thought lately. In late October, I was forced to give up driving for six months (as required by Kansas State Law) after having a couple of seizures. It's been quite a change in lifestyle. I work full-time and live in a city with minimal bus service, etc., and if it weren't for my husband and college-age son at home, I don't know what I'd do.

Sounds like your father is using some good judgment in paying attention to his reflexes and reactions and his own comfort zone. Awhile back, my Grandpa voluntarily gave up his driver's license after being involved in a minor accident. He didn't feel that his reactions were good enough for driving. I think I'd give up driving if I didn't feel safe, or if my doctor told me I weren't safe. If my eyesight were a factor, I'd get my eyes checked more often - required or not. I value my independence, but not if I were putting myself and everyone around me at too much risk.

Right now, I'm on meds and haven't had any seizures since starting the meds. Although I'd love to have my independence back, the consequences of having a seizure while driving are really scary. I think that's the bottom line for me both now and when I'm older - if I can't physically and mentally handle it, I'll give it up. I don't know what I'd do if I were single now, but there are a lot of good retirement villages around here with some good transportation options.

Deb

[smurfalicious]

A very dear friend of mine was killed by an 84 year old woman. He was riding his motorcycle and has just finished passing someone and got into the right hand lane. She was leaving the hospital and pulled out right in front of him.

To watch it on the news was so painful. The DOT guy made it sound like he was an *** who got what was coming to him. Not possible that she shouldn't have been driving and ending a 25 year old life.

The day it happened my brother (his roommate and best friend) came home from work and was curious where Jared was. He got on his bike and cruised around looking for him. When he hit Stark St and saw it closed off with ambulances and police he didn't think much and went home. My dad lives next door to him and was waiting when he got home. Travis went nuts screaming, "Where is Jared!?" My dad took him to the hospital where he worked and Jared was. His internal bleeding was so bad he stood no chance.

It made me sick. Every time Travis came to visit and snowboard I waited for Jared to come in the door with him. He was like a brother to me, and I miss him.

My grandma was about 65 or so when she died of diabetes complications. When she went for her dialysis treatments she took the bus that Tri-Met provided for the elderly. She was perfectly capable of driving but saw it best to take the bus. I just wonder why that woman couldn't have? 80 friggin 4. Her pride, and freedom were not worth such a young life being taken.

The most sickening part of the story is that Jared had two step siblings that he loved to bits. When he and my brother got street bikes they took out life insurance policies. Jared's was intended to put his step siblings to college. His mom used it to buy herself a new Lexus. UGH!

[smilingcat]

Hi Smurf,

I'm sorry to hear about your friend and what his mom did. So many questions and all still very painful. We all try to move forward in life after such tragedy; but, it is part of us. Our spirit is resilient and we continue on. Remember the good times, remember the sad times and remember the goodness of your friend.

When to give up. I've known only one man who was willing to give up his license. The rest had to have it taken away by the state. My father was a terrible. It was a sad day to have him declared not fit to drive and "force" the state to take away his license. That was like 4 years ago. He still thinks he can drive. My sister and I just can't live the thought of if our father drove and killed an innocent person.

When will I give up? I hope when I still have enough sense to say No more. The trouble with this is though, having seen my father, our judgment is impared so we can't drive. And the same judgement is needed to say no more but its not there. So we say yes I can drive. Kind of catch-22. I hope I can say no while I still have enough sense.

My partner and I don't have any children so we hope we will be living in a place where car isn't needed. Not sure about hauling cat litter and groceries though...

Smilingcat

[tulip]

I already limit my driving to daytime hours because I'm blind in one eye. My depth perception is not what it should be, and so I choose not to drive at night. There's no restriction on my license. I hope to be living in a walkable city with great support and healthcare. I think that means I have to move to France, though. Could be worse.

[bmccasland]

It's one of the things I've been mulling over, where do I want to retire? Where I currently live, I can get to a grocery store & pharmacy by bicycle buy not much else. Then there's the whole hurricane evacuation thing. I don't have kids, am currently single, so it's up to me to get my hide out of Dodge. Which leads me to thinking that maybe I want to get myself transferred one more time somewhere else - and somewhere that I won't have to pack up and evacuate at a moment's or day's notice.

So if I did move, I'd like to live somewhere that things are either within walking / biking distance or had decent public transit. I'd also like to think I'd have the good sense to take myself out of the driving pool when I'm "of a certain age." Whatever that is. Unfortunately our cities are designed around automobiles as modes of transit, that if you don't have one, you're in a world of hurt. Thanks to the powerful lobbying efforts of AARP, it's hard to take away driver's licenses from the elderly. I've seen my own Mother do some scary things, and now she only drives in areas she's familiar with, but that doesn't stop the unfamiliar from popping out in front of her. But where she lives, there's no public transit, and nothing within walking distance except more houses, "welcome to suburbia".

[NoNo]

Ugh, we're going through this now with my grandfather. My grandmother is pretty alert, but knows she's not comfortable driving at night and does what she can to avoid it. My grandfather, however, still thinks he has all his faculties about him and refuses to limit himself in any way. However, we're pretty sure he's got the beginning stages of Altzheimers or dimentia. He can't even hold a conversation without falling asleep or drifting off into his own world while he searches for words. I'm constantly finishing his sentences for him. You can tell him something a hundred times, he won't remember it, but can tell you the same story from 50 years ago every time he sees you. It's maddening, especially since he won't admit anything is wrong. Plus he's had both his knees replaced and basically shuffles around. How could can his reaction time be? There were even a few times he randomly fell this summer. This is not someone I want on the road, either for his safety, or the safety of others. My cousin said he was in the car with them when my grandfather got on the highway in the wrong direction. He also drives unreasonably slow. I was driving them back from dinner once and he yelled at me for going to fast. I pointed out I was doing the speed limit and keeping up with traffic and he said there was no need to be going that fast. If you can't drive with traffic, you're every bit as likely to cause an accident as someone who's speeding. But my mom and aunts don't want the hassle of having the talk with him. They don't want the arguments and general unpleasantness this would cause. Well sorry, but that sure beats the alternative. It's so frustrating because he won't listen to me, and my parents will tell me to mind my business. I wish there was mandatory testing, I'm certain he would fail.

[Tuckervill]

My grandmother hit and killed a highway worker when she was in her 80s. (She lived to be 100.) In her defense, there were extenuating circumstances, with him being shadowed by a big machine, not wearing an orange vest, she was driving into the sunset, etc. She did not get charged with anything. She had already just been driving to church in the next small town and nowhere else.

Sometime after that she had her cataracts repaired, but by then her judgment and memory had started to go. Instead of forcibly taking her driver's license and telling her she couldn't drive, there was just always something "wrong" with her car, and a willing grand-kid just "happening by" who might be able to take her to church. That she never suspected anything about the deception is telling about her state of mind. I think my family saved her dignity in this way. I hope my family is kind to me like that, when it's time.

Karen

[divingbiker]

I wish there was mandatory testing, I'm certain he would fail.

Don't be too sure. My 83-year-old aunt aunt took the driving test last year and failed it, and also failed the eye test. They let her go to her eye doctor to see if he would pass her, and he did, despite the fact that she has macular degeneration and can't see anything except shadows. She somehow managed to pass the driving test the second time and got her license. The threshold for passing is not high.

Luckily she has stopped driving now, but it took her about 5 years of living dangerously before she finally recognized she should get off the road.

[PscyclePath]

I went through this about this time last year with my Dad, who was afflicted with the increasing dementia that comes along with Alzheimer's. And it's not any fun at all. After an episode where he took off in his pickup truck in the middle of the night a week or so before Christmas '07, I wound up simply taking his keys and hiding the truck after I got it out of the body shop.

He didn't take it well at all, and I was not one of his favorite folks for a long while... at least until the dementia progressed enough that he couldn't remember it any more, or who I was.

Me, I hope I have enough sense remaining when I get to that point, where I can make that decision.

[derailed]

I went through this with my grandmother a few years ago.
I spoke to her local cops, and got them to watch her. When an officer saw her doing something out of the ordinary, he pulled her over and had a long conversation with her. He later told me that he explained to her how upset he would be if she got hurt, if a more aggressive younger driver frightened her off the road.

She called me up later that day and asked me to come take the car and help her move to an assisted living facility of her choice. She did not tell me why, just that she chose to stop driving, and it was "time".

I did not have to confront her, the family did not take the blame, and she was not embarrassed.
She didn't lose her marbles for a couple more years, and she never knew I had engineered the change in lifestyle for her. She seemed quite relieved not to have to be responsible for all aspects of her health and safety any longer.

Best wishes in finding a solution which fits your own specific circumstances.

Smurf: My sincere condolences to your loss and to the betrayal of your friend's wishes.

[Possegal]

My father died fairly young, 60, but for the last 6 months he was not able to walk unassisted, yet when we'd see a Dr, the first thing he always wanted to know was when would he be able to drive again. I really got an idea then about how his ability to get from point A to point B, and to take care of my mother that way, was so utterly vital to him. As a single person with no kids, I have no idea how I'll deal with not being able to be independent that way. I guess first step will be moving back home to Pittsburgh. My mother lived for 20 yrs after my Dad, and she never drove. She got herself everywhere on public transportation or her two feet. And by everywhere I mean work, the store, and bingo and the horse track. She had the local grocery store deliver the cat litter.

[Grog]

I am sorry for your loss, Smurf. I also know a young man (who was in my high school class) who got killed by an elderly driver while he was riding his bicycle around some Ivy League campus on the East Coast, a couple of days after starting his PhD in astrophysics. It is maddening. But there are lots of people out there driving who are not paying attention, young and old... and in between.

My dad and his siblings (there used to be 17 of them, now probably 13 or so) have this "deal": they have told each other that they will stop driving when they hit 70 (or is it 75?). That way, nobody has to tell anyone anything: you just stop, no matter how good a driver you think you are. Just in case. I know some of them have passed that milestone already and I don't think they are driving, but I'd need to check. I have a hard time believing my dad will stop driving, but as my mom is six years younger it's likely that he will. Also, my brother and his partner are around to help.

A century of short-sighted urban planning is leaving us with massively sprawled communities that are so entirely car-dependent that it's nearly impossible to really get around if you don't have an engine of your own. A century of medical and public health progress has given us the largest population of elderly people the world has ever seen. We're bound for a catastrophe.

Doctors (and others) are reluctant to take driving privileges away because they know that many elders' health and condition will go downhill from that day, especially because most of them don't have a tight network of people who will help them get around. What a blow to one's autonomy. A catastrophe in every way...

[ASammy1]

My grandfather turned 90 in 2008 and the DMV renewed his licence for 1 year. He is only using it for ID purposes though.

[shootingstar]

I value my independence, but not if I were putting myself and everyone around me at too much risk.

Right now, I'm on meds and haven't had any seizures since starting the meds. Although I'd love to have my independence back, the consequences of having a seizure while driving are really scary. I think that's the bottom line for me both now and when I'm older - if I can't physically and mentally handle it, I'll give it up. I don't know what I'd do if I were single now, but there are a lot of good retirement villages around here with some good transportation options.

Deb

Deborajen, I had a good friend whose father only in his late 40's, had a heart seizure while he was driving on the highway. Fortunately he pulled over the side of road...and simultaneously there was a police car nearby that noticed the erratic movement of the car. He was incredibly lucky.

You are wise to look at modifying regular transportation options. How does your current health affect cycling? Do you do any at this time? Or you now prefer to cycle with someone?

For myself, I gave up my driver's license in my early 20's. I passed the test, got my license but was never comfortable driving on high speed highways. That was a signal to myself that I shouldn't drive at all. And since then, l've only known life without me driving a car.

I will always need to live in a city with public transportation as I have for nearly my whole life which fits in well, anyway with my preferences to live long-term in city vs. rural areas.

Maybe it's just easier for us to get used to less driving on a long term basis in general and continue cycling while we're still healthy/able. Or maybe I'm just being simple minded.