What a day...

[bmccasland]

V - you could come to Loo-si-Ana and join the ranks of the lowest paid school teachers in the nation too. So it could be worse.

Now don't you feel better?

Didn't think so. Being childless, I've wondered where the breakdown occurred that parenting fell off. Or rather when parents quit being responsible for teaching their kids basic manners and civility?

I chewed some neighborhood kids up and down one afternoon who were playing "Army" or something in the street, cause one of the boys pointed a gun at me. Unfortunately for him, the owner of the gun ("not My gun") had taken pain to scratch off the orange safety paint so it wouldn't look fake. I told the group that one N E V E R points a gun at another person - especially if they aren't part of your game. How was I supposed to know?!? I used to play "Army" or whatever when I was a kid, but my Dad taught me, Never EVER point your toy guns at someone who isn't part of your game. Furthermore, get some orange paint, and paint the safety ring back on the gun. Kids have been killed because police officers couldn't tell it was a toy being pointed at them! We then had a discussion on basic gun safety.

Their response was, "yes, ma'am". Gawd, I like living in the south, where you can still get away with yelling at your neighbor's kids. Did help that we were all the same race. Not sure I'd try it if they were all *pick your minority* as I'm white.

[rocknrollgirl]

I have been teaching for 21 years and it has changed. I could go on, and on, but suffice it to say these little beasties that we are cultivating are very, very entitled.And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

I teach primarily "good" kids, and even they are missing the basics in polite behavior and social graces. It is just not being taught at home anymore.

[Tri Girl]

I have been teaching for 21 years and it has changed. I could go on, and on, but suffice it to say these little beasties that we are cultivating are very, very entitled.And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

I teach primarily "good" kids, and even they are missing the basics in polite behavior and social graces. It is just not being taught at home anymore.

I agree completely. My kids are generally good from double income working class families who do their best. Most of the parents and kids at our school are good, but in general the level of entitlement and lacking basic manners is astonishing to me. General human decency seems to be going away (holding doors for others, picking up something for someone when they drop it, letting someone go first, saying please and thank you, etc...)

[OakLeaf]

General human decency seems to be going away (holding doors for others, picking up something for someone when they drop it, letting someone go first, saying please and thank you, etc...)

I had an experience in elementary school that was so mortifying I still remember it. This would've been no later than 1968, okay? My teacher had sent me on an errand to another classroom. Unknown to me, the other teacher was in the middle of lecturing her class on their many transgressions. After I'd delivered whatever it was I was sent to deliver, I started out of the classroom, and accidentally brushed against something and knocked it onto the floor, so I picked it up and put it back. The teacher then laid into her class, "See how she picked it up... why can't you do such a simple thing..."

So I guess, 40 years ago, the manners I was taught were already in short supply among kids my age. Like Aggie, I feel a little un-entitled in this conversation since I have no children. But I'm inclined to agree with the ones that say "things were ever thus." Everything always "used to be better." I heard it from my dad when he taught high school (retired about 10 years) and I hear it from my sister the college professor who's apparently forgotten the appalling stories she used to bring home from high school. I hear it from one of the aerobics instructors who's been retired for about 10 years from teaching middle school. I don't hear it from my mom the elementary school teacher, although she'll acknowledge that her interactions with parents have changed over the years, and obviously she has classes some years that are more of a challenge than other years.

I see the news media hyping certain things that don't bear out with crime statistics. For myself, I remember being terrified to put a step wrong for most of my childhood, but I also remember the trouble some of my peers would get into, and I hear all kinds of stories from DH about his childhood.

V., I AM sympathetic to what you have to deal with this year, and I'll repeat my admiration and appreciation for what you do. I don't think we need to agree on whether things used to be better for us all to say a collective THANK YOU to Veronica, TriGirl, and anyone else I've missed; a belated thank you to Crankin; and to all teachers.

[fastdogs]

I think I sort of understand some of it, after my niece showed us the "other side".
She had four kids, all by different fathers. One of the fathers is in prison for child molestation (someone else's kid, he never got caught with his own). There is a whole generation being raised by people who think of them as another possession, like an ipod. They love their ipod, but they put it away if they have another interest.
These kids never slept on sheets, never knew what clean clothes felt like, and rode piled on top of one another in cars, learning to watch for police cars so they could duck down.
THey were locked out of the trailer while their mom entertained a boyfriend, and ran in packs in the trailer park. They watched out for the police so their mom and whoever she was with could sell drugs in the living room. They periodically lost everything they owned when their mom got kicked out of another rental. Their mom always had a boyfriend, and often out of luck friends stayed with them for a while. Sometimes these friends molested or abused the children.They didn't know anything being taught at the school, but knew the visiting hours for the jail, times the police cars came by, and how to molest other children.
They never got medical care or dental care, but mom always had internet service, ipods, etc. I just think the kids grow up only getting attention when it's convenient, and knowing they are not that important to anyone. As all the details of their daily existence and the things they saw and learned were revealed, it was pretty disgusting.
Luckily for this bunch, the state took them away from her. My younger sister took the whole bunch in, and for the first time they saw someone making them the center of her life- she quit a job so she could move them closer to family, got them the medical, dental, and psychiatric care they needed. They learned to change their sheets once a week, help out with laundry and chores, and had schedules and discipline. They aren't perfect- they aren't from the best genetics and have some developmental problems, but they went from "special" slow students to honor roll students. Every day they sit down as a family for a meal, and they see a man and woman treating each other respectfully, and working every day. TV is limited, but they are involved in other activities and get to see what a "normal" life was like.
It's not just money- it's the way the parents act and how they treat the children. My husband was born in a foxhole during a civil war, and raised on rice and salt because of the famine created by the civil war, but during all the hard times the children were the most important things in their parent's lives, and they made many sacrifices so that the family could survive. They did not do things that would actually endanger the children, (something that is common in my niece's world). They had nothing, but they still raised their kids to be respectful, hard working, and moral.
It was shocking to me to realize there is an entire culture out there whose children are NOT the most important things in their lives- possessions and friends take priority over even their children. What it does to the kids is trouble for all the rest of us. I think they can shoot somebody for real, without a second thought, I don't think they are raised thinking that life means very much.
vickie

[shootingstar]

Luckily for this bunch, the state took them away from her. My younger sister took the whole bunch in, and for the first time they saw someone making them the center of her life- she quit a job so she could move them closer to family, got them the medical, dental, and psychiatric care they needed. They learned to change their sheets once a week, help out with laundry and chores, and had schedules and discipline. They aren't perfect- they aren't from the best genetics and have some developmental problems, but they went from "special" slow students to honor roll students. Every day they sit down as a family for a meal, and they see a man and woman treating each other respectfully, and working every day. TV is limited, but they are involved in other activities and get to see what a "normal" life was like.
It's not just money- it's the way the parents act and how they treat the children. My husband was born in a foxhole during a civil war, and raised on rice and salt because of the famine created by the civil war, but during all the hard times the children were the most important things in their parent's lives, and they made many sacrifices so that the family could survive. They did not do things that would actually endanger the children, (something that is common in my niece's world). They had nothing, but they still raised their kids to be respectful, hard working, and moral.
It was shocking to me to realize there is an entire culture out there whose children are NOT the most important things in their lives- possessions and friends take priority over even their children. What it does to the kids is trouble for all the rest of us. I think they can shoot somebody for real, without a second thought, I don't think they are raised thinking that life means very much.
vickie

Wow, fastdogs your sister and her hubby have incredible patience! It's wonderful to hear these occasional success stories.

Cultivating civility in a child takes a long time, lots of patience and best start at home.

I just remembered now as a child I switched to a 2nd public school in Ontario where the children during recess, after the bell rang to end recess, we were expected to line up per grade level and file back into the school building under the direction of the supervising teacher each day. This also occurred when school bell signalled start of school each morning. Does this happen anymore to slow down children after high activity on playground? Previous school where I began did not have this form of near military discipline. Children just piled in through the door.

[Aggie_Ama]

Didn't think so. Being childless, I've wondered where the breakdown occurred that parenting fell off. Or rather when parents quit being responsible for teaching their kids basic manners and civility?

I do wonder if I have a right to judge since I have no kids and may never chose to have them. But seeing that I usually form opinions on anything I darn well feel I wonder the same thing. My parents are completely laid back and we are often more friend than parent so I don't think it is lack of discipline. We had a lot of freedom. I guess if I knew they magic answer I could write a book and make millions. Go on Oprah or something.

[OakLeaf]

I would hate to think it's a choice between suicidal (kids who were beaten) and homicidal (kids who weren't, supposedly).

I don't know if it's just kids, though. Honestly? The people I see behaving most rudely, most consistently, are elderly people. Definitely displaying a sense of entitlement and an appalling lack of respect for others. And unlike kids with their toy guns, the old people are REALLY killing people with their real cars. I think it's what people have been fed in the news media for the last 10 or so years. Kids may be growing up on it, but old people really BELIEVE it.