yeaaa!

[SouthernBelle]

To be honest, when I clicked on this thread earlier this morning, I knew trouble was coming. There is no rule against discussing politics here, but we have had a general agreement against it, as well as religion, as trouble usually ensues.

And it did.

I'm amazed that anyone is surprised by that.

BTW, I did vote for Obama and am certainly pleased by the outcome. But I don't expect everyone to agree or be happy about it.

[Cataboo]

I can't say that I've noticed that trouble actually occurred. Someone who was unhappy with Obama being president got to express their opinions on it - Noone attacked her on it or called them names. And vice versa, no McCain supporter's attacked an Obama supporter.

A dissenting opinion is not trouble. It's good that there's more than one opinion. And I know all of the people who don't agree about steel, wool, carbon, doubles vs. triples don't feel marginalized or brooks saddles don't feel marginalized and leave because of all the people that love them on here - and the same should apply to politics and religion.

[kermit]

We all love and respect each other and our country, thats what makes America so strong. After 9-11 thousands of people pulled together and supported each other, the flag was everywhere. Obama won't wear an amercan flag pin. The country he now represents. Problem? Yeah, I know, ignore button. He is my president and I will respect him. I hope he respects us.
Now if you will excuse me, I need to go find a new mountain bike on ebay. I'll post photos when I get it.

[snapdragen]

look again kermit, I believe he had a flag pin on last night. I do not wear a flag pin. That does not mean I do not love my country.

[SadieKate]

To be honest, when I clicked on this thread earlier this morning, I knew trouble was coming. There is no rule against discussing politics here, but we have had a general agreement against it, as well as religion, as trouble usually ensues.

And it did.

And there hasn’t been more trouble because there are members who are remaining silent through apprehension or sensitivity. They’ve learned that discussion of politics and religion beyond the boundaries of cycling eventually results in angry arguments with no opinions changed. The threads become “overly arrogant, confrontational, disruptive or promoting a war of words (flame war)”, as quoted from the forum use policy.

If today someone celebrated the (probable) passage of California Prop 8, there are TE members who would immediately pounce, vociferously crying “gay bashing.” We’ve had contentious discussions in the past where members attempted to provide relationship counseling with a conservative Christian view point and were treated very poorly . . . and vice versa. This forum has a demonstrable history of threads going astray where politics and religion are concerned. I can only imagine what would happen if we had a thread on abortion. This forum generally does not welcome all viewpoints, simply the timid and/or diplomatic don’t post or leave the forum. They’ve been well taught.

I interpret the rules of the forum to mean I have freedom of speech on cycling and other sports/fitness topics within the bounds of good Netiquette. Other topics are only a privilege and, out of respect for the forum host and my fellow TE members, should not stray into confrontational areas.

I will simply end with the repeatable words my Vietnam Vet husband (who was not treated well by many in this country on his return, as if the war was his fault) said about those who wear flag pins: “It’s pin-on patriotism. It is not worth the paper it is printed on. It has nothing to do with whether you are patriotic and most of the people who wear them never were part of the military or fought for our country.” Thank goodness we have a country where you can choose not to wear a pin and not have your citizenship revoked.

[kermit]

Point taken. Everything here could be an argument and should not be. This is a biking forum afterall. Although everyone is entitled to their opinion, some are more acceptable than others. We will see what the next four year brings. I hope it helps us all.

[SadieKate]

We will see what the next four year brings. I hope it helps us all.

Me, too!

By the way, with a little googling you'll see that both McCain and Obama did and did not wear flag pins at different times. McCain didn't wear one at the convention speech nor at one of the debates when Obama was wearing one. Does that make 'em both flip-floppers?

[Cataboo]

I should probably just shut up...

But I think part of what lost McCain the election is that in a time that when the country is fighting 2 wars, our banking system is teetering, I'd say we're not safer than after Sept 11th, and our civil liberties are in tatters... Someone mentioned earlier how Obama would squash any opposition, we'd have a civilian security force, etc... And tell me, how is that different than the liberties that they have already been taken with our constitution and homeland security.... (Okay, this is going to lead me off on a tangent)

But anyways, in light of the world & bleak situation, the McCain campaign concentrated on negative campaigning having to do with Obama's religion, Obama's preacher, Obama's tentative connection to Ayers as a terrorist, Obama's supporting sex education for kindergartners, and whether or not someone wears a flag pin. And on him being an elitist... When did it become bad to have competent smart leaders in the US? And really... None of that is relevant to the problems that are facing America... and I'm glad that America has sent that message to the Republican party that they don't want to be treated like children, that they want competent politicians, and they want to hear about the issues.

I'd say I was a republican, but when I go through all of the things that I associate the republican party with and compare that to the current republican party... There's nothing in common between the two anymore.

I can remember when George Bush (the senior) ran and Bob Dole ran... Noone had to prove they were american by wearing pins, and noone had to prove their christianity or belief in god constantly. I find it one of the greatest tragedies of this race the constant implications that Obama was a muslim or had too many associations with Muslims and that somehow just being or knowing muslims is a bad thing. And really, America is better than that. America should be better than that. I'm not muslim or Christian, and I've voted for someone who's not my religion in every election in my life... And that's never made a difference to me, I vote on the issues and on who's most competent to do the job. Not on whether they're the same religion as I am or whether or not I want to get a beer with them.

And I hope this election shifts the focus of our electorate towards the issues and what really matters as opposed to all of the nonsense that this last one seemed to be focused upon.

[Veronica]

Two of the sweetest, most repsectful kids in my class this year are Muslims.

They don't say the Pledge of Allegiance, but they do stand and show much more respect than some of my other kids.

Veronica

[Cataboo]

Two of the sweetest, most repsectful kids in my class this year are Muslims.

They don't say the Pledge of Allegiance, but they do stand and show much more respect than some of my other kids.

Veronica

I said the pledge allegiance every day in school growing up.

One of the more embarrassing moments of my elementary school career was at some point in 5th grade I got picked to go to the principal's office to lead the pledge of allegiance over the PA system.

So I went... And I remembered... I pledge allegiance to the flag and ... erm. erm.

The principal had to help me finish it. Despite it being written on the sign near the flag in every classroom, and me having recited it every morning. Stick hand over heart, say I pledge allegiance to the flag and mumbled the rest for the 5 mins or whatever it was and zoned out.

I can't say if I actually know it now. I definitely don't know the words to the Star Spangled banner.

And I don't wear a flag pin and never have...

Does that make me not a patriot? I can still tear up if I hear the star spangled banner sung especially well, I'm willing to pay more taxes to get us out of the mess that this country is in, and I donate stuff to the troops... And having travelled a lot, in spite of all the things that frustrate me in the US, there's no other country that I want to permanently live.

I also don't wear live armstrong bracelets and I don't wear breast cancer ribbons. Does that mean I don't support cancer victims? Does that mean I'm unsympathetic to their plight? No, it means that I prefer to actually have my actions mean something as opposed to what I wear. (I work in cancer research)

Okay, I'm gonna shut up and get back to work 'cause I'm beating a dead point.

And Kermit, I definitely wasn't offended and hope I wasn't offensive in response.

[Biciclista]

I guess I'm just a dreamer, but I'm hoping that this election marks the END of negative, vile, lying, hate campaigning.

This campaign was so negative that phone bank people, who are usually barely getting by (and need their jobs!), walk out on the jobs so to get the evil message out, they had to resort to robocalling to do it.

And telling people they could vote BY PHONE or better yet, wait until Wednesday! This is reprehensible. And I hope that by losing, this may NEVER happen again.

[Susan Otcenas]

So, after a bit of thought, I've moved this thread to the way off topic category.

My preference would be that folks did not talk politics or religion on the forums. But, I'm not one that likes to stifle discussion, and I know that I enjoy talking with my cycling friends about lots of things that don't involve cycling.

Sooooo, I won't shut down this thread, but I WILL ask folks to limit their political discussion to this way off topic category, and to refrain from bring up politics in cycling-related threads.

Thanks,

Susan

[smilingcat]

I will simply end with the repeatable words my Vietnam Vet husband (who was not treated well by many in this country on his return, as if the war was his fault) said about those who wear flag pins: “It’s pin-on patriotism. It is not worth the paper it is printed on. It has nothing to do with whether you are patriotic and most of the people who wear them never were part of the military or fought for our country.” Thank goodness we have a country where you can choose not to wear a pin and not have your citizenship revoked.

Dear Sadiekate, Thank you,

To those who had pinned their hopes on Sen. Mc Cain, I have no desire to to put salt into your wounds. I only offer hope and well wishes that our country can begin the healing process. For any person, to reach the highest of office, they can't be that stupid. Give them a chance just as I give Sen. Obama a chance to imrprove our country for the better. We all need to work together. We all live under the same roof to speak of.

sincerely to all,
Smilingcat

[katluvr]

I have been very amused reading this thread as I finish my lunch.
Like other threads I "click on" those that seem to be something I want to read or be part of. Since I voted for Obama, I thought...hmmmmm this is a thread I am interested in.
I did not click on many others. It is all about choices. You chose to read or skip to another post.

I do not talk politics w/ my family. I do not START these discussions with others until I know it is safe. I came here, felt safe. If this was a discussion about McCain or a Obama bashing...I would not visit, I would not provoke.

Kuddos to the one who started this thread (sorry, can't see that now). Thank you for a thread I wanted to visit and read. Thank you for a space to share the enjoy the feeling of a great occasion. If feels great to me. And celebrating, quietly and respectfully, is what this is about.

By the way...I won't be getting married in this stinkin state, either! Oh well, who needs a state's permission to be w/ the one they love!

Now that I am done enjoying this conversation..I'll move on. Next topic...food, workout, weight gain, HOW DULL!