blatant sexism

[RoadRaven]

As someone who tries to enlighten adult students about gender "issues" and invisible sexism that continues in our societies, I empathise and sympathise.

May I also use your story in class, AppleGum?

lph... I don't think your playing the devils advocate, per se... cause looking for a knowledgable bike mechanic doesn't have to involve stupid questions. But you do have a good point. If my partner goes into a bike shop where he knows no-one, he chooses who he wants to talk to based on their body. He is a top road cyclist in NZ in his age group, and people who ride at that level (either male, or the equilvalent female level) have a certain look... their faces tell their weight, their leg muscles tell their cycling discipline... and their muscles and weight tell their level of ability and dedication.

He would never dream of asking if someone rides a bike, but he has asked what type of bike they ride/have ridden.

BTW, lph - luuurve the comebacks. Wish I wasn't so tired so I could add to them!

[applegum]

If you do nothing, you get nothing.
If it should ever happen again, just say "Do you mind if I ask you a question?"

"If you saw a male wearing this apron would you say the same thing?"

You may not be cooking anything but you might be providing food for thought.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was planning on doing, since I'll probably get asked again if I ride tomorrow. Hopefully no one will say anything pertaining to me cooking anything again. Mostly I've avoided saying anything like this so far because a lot of people would get defensive if I asked, and I really didn't want to upset customers. It'd look bad for my managers and I really like all three of them. But I'm leaving in a week and have honestly stopped caring!

Zen had a good suggested response.

Well applegum, I'm glad though you earned your keep at LBS. Which one was it in T.O.? It must have been tiring to hear some of the crap.

It's actually in Richmond, VA. Hopefully it won't happen once I get back to school since I might be working as a mechanic at a school co-op.

May I also use your story in class, AppleGum?

Feel free! Most people underestimate the amount of sexism still out there in the world, thinking we've fixed it all! Totally untrue, unfortunately, although we have come a long way. But it'll be hard to get over the last few hurdles if everyone refuses to acknowledge them.

Thanks for the support everyone! I know that 99% of the people who do stuff like this don't mean to offend, but after four months of it (how do you all take it after so many years?!) on a consistent basis without saying anything I just needed to get it all out before I went off on someone.

[tulip]

Hi Applegum, I think I know where you work (no names please), and no disrespect to the place, but they do get alot of people who have NO CLUE about bikes. If people are clueless, they tend to get nervous and stupid(er). Glad it's your last week.

Where's the coop of which you speak--Richmond ReCycles? I have yet to stop in there, but I crane my neck whenever I'm going down Cary Street.

[applegum]

Hi Applegum, I think I know where you work (no names please), and no disrespect to the place, but they do get alot of people who have NO CLUE about bikes. If people are clueless, they tend to get nervous and stupid(er). Glad it's your last week.

Where's the coop of which you speak--Richmond ReCycles? I have yet to stop in there, but I crane my neck whenever I'm going down Cary Street.

Yeah, it's the shop you think it is. Which is why I haven't gotten upset with anyone who's asked that yet. Then again, Richmond shops in general are in poor shape right now and ours is actually known for being the best for advice and not hiring jerks in the area. We get a lot of people in mentioning the horrible service at a few of the LBS's actually.

I'd love to work at Richmond Recycles, but I'm moving back to Toronto finally. Hopefully I'll be working at the Bikechain, which is run by UofT students and faculty.

[ridebikeme]

Um.... I know exactly what you are talking about. Although, I have to agree with Deb, things have definitely become WAY better than in my early career. I try to remind myself that there were many women that had it worse than I did, and they in fact, have paved the way for the rest of us. I also see it as something that I should try and make better for the future . Although it's not comfortable, try and turn it around and educate people. Not only will theyl remember you, but you will set the tone for no matter what you choose to do in life.

[Becky]

I had a good one today.

At our shop, when a customer takes a bike out on a test ride, we're required to hang the tag from our aprons. Naturally, this results in a lot of "oh, so you're $XXX today? What a good deal!" and so on. Most people make the stupid joke and move on.

Today, I sent a customer out on a very nice full carbon and Dura Ace bike. The man with him proceeded to start the "you're $2900 today?" joke with me, and would not let it drop. He asked me if that was my daily or weekly rate, and on and on. I wish that I'd remembered Zen's line about asking that if I was a man- I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have gone there with one of the guys. He finally shut up when I told him that he was digging himself a pretty deep hole. His friend was so embarrassed by his behavior!

I don't mean to be curt with customers, but there are some that just push so far beyond the limits of decency...

Grrr! Some days it's just not worth the discount!

BTW, I think it's perfectly ok to say, "Are you familiar with product ABC?" before launching into your question(s). I can't possibly know every product that we sell, and I'll gladly hand you over to someone else who can better speak to the topic. "Do you ride?" is a little too broad and makes just about everyone uncomfortable.

[Mr. Bloom]

Applegum: I'm with Lisa and LPH...it seems to me that the guy may have responded to sarcasm with sarcasm...without any sexist intent.

I'm not saying that there isn't sexism and am not trying to justify it when there is, but in retail, the customer is always right no matter how wrong they are...and I'd be careful throwing out sharp responses...unless you really practice taking the edge of the delivery. Change attitudes one person at a time by demonstrating your competance, not by ticking them off

[Zen]

He asked me if that was my daily or weekly rate, and on and on.

Whoa.
If that were my customer he may have burst into flames due to the intense glare from my eyes.
I have to commend you on you self control.

[tc1]

If it makes you feel any better, if I see a woman working in a bike shop I try to make my purchase from her.

So I'm on a service call at a customer's house (electric company). The drunk barfly woman sez "I thought they were going to send a ****in' man! Why in the hell did they send you?) I shrugged my shoulders, did what I had to do, and she apologized afterwards. She said she was just surprised.

The good part about being in a mostly male profession is no line for restroom at seminars, meetings, etc.

[squirrell]

I'm a pastor, and sexism just comes with the robe. I had one guy tell me "why should I come to church to hear a woman tell me what to do--I got a wife at home who does that."

He thought it was funny....

I didn't.

[shootingstar]

That Wrangler jeans ad is shiveringly sick and wierd.

And those baby shoes with a heel...they look abit like the old Chinese shoes for women who had bound feet. Oh ugh.

[lph]

Those Wrangler ads are DISGUSTING. I don't think I've ever seen an ad that made me feel queasy before. What were they thinking? What did they want their buyers to think?? "Oh, no, how awful! but ooh, she sure has nice jeans on..."

[tulip]

Yeah, it's the shop you think it is. Which is why I haven't gotten upset with anyone who's asked that yet. Then again, Richmond shops in general are in poor shape right now and ours is actually known for being the best for advice and not hiring jerks in the area. We get a lot of people in mentioning the horrible service at a few of the LBS's actually.

I'd love to work at Richmond Recycles, but I'm moving back to Toronto finally. Hopefully I'll be working at the Bikechain, which is run by UofT students and faculty.

I have heard some very bad reviews of a couple (one in particular) shops here in Richmond. I have not gone to those shops. I've only been to one shop here in the past year that I've lived here, and it was not negative, but not great (like my old shop outside of DC-Proteus rocks!) I do most of my basic work myself, and I haven't need to buy anything lately, so I've been lucky that way.

Best of luck in Toronto! Richmond will miss losing a competent and nice bike shop employee who also happens to be a woman!

[applegum]

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that the customer isn't always right. Even if they're blatantly wrong though I never tell them that, and still act politely towards them. It's not even for my job's sake since there's no way they would have fired me, but just because I don't want my boss getting the flak for me not being able to handle a little ignorance every once in a while. My bosses always side with our employees at least, although they will try to appease the customer. We never get blamed for a disgruntled customer when it was just them being rude or demanding things that we just can't supply (like brands we don't carry or being able to mark down clearance prices or overhauling a bike on a busy saturday), and usually whichever manager was around for the incident will have some supportive or commiseration words to say afterwards. I gotta say, it really makes for a comfortable work environment, and it shows in our general customer service since we all feel at home at the shop.

As to getting sarcasm back for sarcasm, I was completely un-sarcastic in my reply of "you can tell by the apron." That's just my usual reply if someone asks if I work there, and I say it in a non-joking but still friendly voice. His reply was funny, but terribly inappropriate. The other girl who works with me has had her apron strings untied by some idiot guys who come by, like it's in their rights as a customer to undress the female sales people. That's way worse.

[badger]

Mine's probably not so much sexism, but a figure of authority for the lack of better description.

I work in a fire department, and I work in the front end. Oftentimes a citizen will walk in wanting a stamp for how many people can be in their restaurant. I'm the one who can help them, yet they inevitably look beyond me for a guy in a uniform (they're not trained to do what I do). It's annoying, but if they want the stamp, they have to deal with me, so eventually they'll get it.

I was once at a clothing store in a mall. It was a female-clothing store, so the lone guy in it kind of stood out. I guess it's really no different than seeing a girl at a bike store, but it takes a moment to shift your brain into gear. It's great you're working at a bike store, though. I once aspired to become a bike mechanic, but I got steered into clerical work. I guess I can still learn on the side!