Bike Fit Question - Leg Length Discrepancy

[melissam]

I know, what took me so long to call Tom Slocum at High Sierra Cycles? Perhaps some of you don't know this, but I am a Professional Procrastinator.

Anyway...I called Tom this morning to see if his setup would help me. First of all, Tom's a really nice guy! I was a little leery of calling someone who helps world-class cyclists, since I'm a recreational cyclist. I shouldn't have been so leery. Secondly, Tom says 'Hi' to Eileen (Triskeliongirl.)

Here's what we plan to do:
1. He'll call me tomorrow and do a more in depth interview with me.
2. I'll have video taken of me riding on the trainer -- from the front, back, and both sides.
3. From the video, he'll analyze my pedaling, take some measurements, and send me an adjustable crankset.
4. I'll ride with the adjustable crankset for about 100 miles and give him feedback. We'll tweak the adjustable crank set as necessary.
5. After I think the adjustable crankset is "dialed in," I'll either send him another video or go to his shop so he can re-analyze.
6. He'll make a custom crankset, and I'll live happily ever after. Or at least I'll be more comfortable when biking long distances.

-- Melissa

[Triskeliongirl]

Hey guys- I am bumping this up to benefit a new member that just sent me a PM on this topic. Also, I want to add that I found some great sandals recently that are really good for holding a large heal lift. They aren't the prettiest thing out there, but they really do the job and are *very comfortable* to walk in, and they aren't super ugly either.

http://www.footsmart.com/Product.asp...-_-product-_-3

I bought one pair in black and one in bone leather. What I like is with the back the lift stays in place, whereas in backless shoes it is constantly moving and I have to keep resecuring it. They are great for work and long walks.

[badgercat]

Hope no one minds the bump... I'm a new forum member with a 9/16" LLD, and it's nice to see such a wealth of info out there, so I thought I'd chime in with my personal experience.

I think 9/16" is probably too much to be correcting just at the heel (gives me terrible posture, but does help with the hip pain), but I do use heel lifts most of the time. The difference is in my femurs--I just grew that way. I also have a mild-moderate S-curve scoliosis, so there might have been some causative effect of one on the other, who knows.

This isn't necessarily cycling related, but the last post about sandals makes me want to put in a good word (I'm not affiliated with the company at all, just a happy customer ) about Chaco. They're a great company (socially and ecologically pretty responsible) that makes quality footwear. Chacos were pretty popular where I went to college (Madison, WI) and I was always so sad that I couldn't wear them because I couldn't envision how they'd work with a lift. Well, Chaco had thought of that already. They work with a cobbler in a neighboring town to their headquarters in Colorado to do custom lifts (between the footbed and sole) in a couple lines of their sandals. Since he works with Chaco, the lifts don't violate your warranty, and you can still send your sandals to Chaco for repairs, resoles, etc. (Basic info in their FAQ's here).

I got a pair of ZX/1's about a year and a half ago, and am SO happy with them. Unfortunately, the lifted shoe is significantly heavier and less flexible than the regular one, but to me, it's a small price to pay for being able to wear sandals again. I had avoided sandals for years because of my LLD, and now it's a rare day to find me not wearing my Chacos--my tan lines are pretty impressive. I took a couple pictures of my sandals (yes, I love them THAT MUCH) and then my camera battery died... if anyone's interested in what they look like lifted, I can upload them after I find my charger.

[melissam]

Badgercat,

Thanks so much about the information about the Chaco's. I think they look mighty cool, and it's great to know that they work people to do heel lifts or orthotics. Did you get a set of Chaco's with lifts from the cobbler in the FAQ? If so, how long did it take between ordering them and receiving them?

Everyone interested in cycling & leg length discrepancies,

I received my "temporary" adjustable crankset from Tom Slocum and had it installed on my Merlin. So far I've only ridden ~60 miles on it, but so far, so good. A couple of comments:

1. The workmanship on the crankset is fantastic! When I mentioned that to Tom, he said that the finished product would be even better!

2. The crankset has the dropped pedal for my right leg, which is my longer leg. The pedal is permanently attached to the crank in a way that the Q-factor is equivalent to the pedal/crank on the uncorrected side.

3. It's hard to explain, but the crankset is adjustable in a way that makes it elliptical. The rings are round, but the middle is adjusted so that it's off center (like its owner. ) Ahem. Anyway, this resulted in the bike shop having to raise the front derailleur a bit to accommodate it.

4. The adjustable crankset is a standard double -- 53/39. Since my Merlin has a 12-27 cassette, this means that I'm not bringing it on my climbing rides. The Trek has been on Mt. Hamilton and Mt. Diablo duty and will be coming up to Crater Lake this weekend. The Trek will most likely be participating in the Waves to Wine ride as well.

I'm starting to think that if I want to get the miles on the Merlin to test out the crank, I'm going to have to change to a mountain cassette/derailleur. What a slippery slope this upgrading business is.

5. Based on the video I sent Tom, he recommended a couple of adjustments to my seat and my right cleat.

I really need to put more miles on the Merlin so I have something to report back to Tom. After that, we can get the adjustments dialed in and he can make the "real" custom crankset.

- Melissa

[KnottedYet]

Hope no one minds the bump... I'm a new forum member with a 9/16" LLD, and it's nice to see such a wealth of info out there, so I thought I'd chime in with my personal experience.

I think 9/16" is probably too much to be correcting just at the heel (gives me terrible posture, but does help with the hip pain), but I do use heel lifts most of the time. The difference is in my femurs--I just grew that way. I also have a mild-moderate S-curve scoliosis, so there might have been some causative effect of one on the other, who knows.

This isn't necessarily cycling related, but the last post about sandals makes me want to put in a good word (I'm not affiliated with the company at all, just a happy customer ) about Chaco. They're a great company (socially and ecologically pretty responsible) that makes quality footwear. Chacos were pretty popular where I went to college (Madison, WI) and I was always so sad that I couldn't wear them because I couldn't envision how they'd work with a lift. Well, Chaco had thought of that already. They work with a cobbler in a neighboring town to their headquarters in Colorado to do custom lifts (between the footbed and sole) in a couple lines of their sandals. Since he works with Chaco, the lifts don't violate your warranty, and you can still send your sandals to Chaco for repairs, resoles, etc. (Basic info in their FAQ's here).

I got a pair of ZX/1's about a year and a half ago, and am SO happy with them. Unfortunately, the lifted shoe is significantly heavier and less flexible than the regular one, but to me, it's a small price to pay for being able to wear sandals again. I had avoided sandals for years because of my LLD, and now it's a rare day to find me not wearing my Chacos--my tan lines are pretty impressive. I took a couple pictures of my sandals (yes, I love them THAT MUCH) and then my camera battery died... if anyone's interested in what they look like lifted, I can upload them after I find my charger.

I got my Chacos lifted by my neighborhood shoe repair guy, cuz having Chaco do it was turning into a huge hassle. He crafted an amazing work of art, tapered and scored and curved, beautifully flexible and rockered.

Chaco makes great sandals. I'm kind of sad that they fired the folks in Paonia and now have everything made in China. Now I treasure my collection of Chacos made in the US. I have some that are over 10 years old and going strong!

There's no reason to assume that now their quality will go down at all, it's just kind of frustrating to see the pictures of Chaco "employees" on the website and in the catalogs, and know those pics are just propaganda now and all that is gone.

ETA: Chaco's repair service is fabulous, they've been great to me! Anything you've done to your Chacos, they can handle it.

[badgercat]

Badgercat,

Thanks so much about the information about the Chaco's. I think they look mighty cool, and it's great to know that they work people to do heel lifts or orthotics. Did you get a set of Chaco's with lifts from the cobbler in the FAQ? If so, how long did it take between ordering them and receiving them?

Mine did come through David, the one listed in the FAQ. I don't remember exactly how long it took... I went back and forth with him over email and telephone a few times before deciding to go through with it. I want to say, though, that from the time I said "go," to the time I had them in hand, was about 10 days.

I got my Chacos lifted by my neighborhood shoe repair guy, cuz having Chaco do it was turning into a huge hassle. He crafted an amazing work of art, tapered and scored and curved, beautifully flexible and rockered.

Chaco makes great sandals. I'm kind of sad that they fired the folks in Paonia and now have everything made in China. Now I treasure my collection of Chacos made in the US. I have some that are over 10 years old and going strong!

There's no reason to assume that now their quality will go down at all, it's just kind of frustrating to see the pictures of Chaco "employees" on the website and in the catalogs, and know those pics are just propaganda now and all that is gone.

ETA: Chaco's repair service is fabulous, they've been great to me! Anything you've done to your Chacos, they can handle it.

I was so clueless about how common leg length discrepancies were, that I didn't realize you could have things like this done at local shops until my Chaco started to separate at the toe a little bit. I brought it in to be re-glued and the guy said he would have done the lift differently and better. David's work isn't perfect... I definitely wouldn't have minded having a little more rocker at the toe, for example (these are things that I just didn't know to ask about back then...), but for my first pair of professionally lifted shoes, I've definitely gotten a lot of miles and happiness out of them.

KnottedYet, can you still get resoles and such done on 'third-party' lifted Chacos just the same? I've been thinking about investing in another pair in a different style so I have something to wear when mine are wet from being washed.

At some point in my life, when my finances (and my taste in shoes) are more stable, I definitely want to have permanent lifts put into more of my shoes... it's just such a better way to walk/stand around than lifting one heel with the same lifts I've been switching in and out of shoes since I was in high school.

I guess I didn't realize that most of Chaco's manufacturing was done abroad these days...mine say "assembled in Colorado" on the tags, but it never occurred to me that that's not the same as "made in Colorado." A similar thing happened with Timbuk2 (messenger bags that I love for bike commuting), though it seems like they're still pretty committed to high quality products and good working conditions, I like the idea of my stuff not having to be transported across the globe--carbon footprint and all that.

[KnottedYet]

They're not even assembled in Colorado any more. As of June this year, all manufacturing stages are done in China.

Chaco repair is still in Paonia, though.

One of the advantages of having your local repair shop do the lifts is they can see you walk and customize the lift to you personally. David does his work at a distance and to a standard model. My shoe dude, for example, could see that I get a lot of my power in my stride from my toe-off, so he knew I'd need a scored area at the metatarsal heads and a definite taper/rocker to the toe.

Chaco stands by David's work, I wouldn't knock it!

I haven't had Chaco do any resoling yet (my 10 year old Z1's need new soles). Most of my problems have been dog-meets-sandal related... I'm thinking of having Chaco just send me some new soles and getting my same guy to replace them. He has a less sexy and much cheaper 1/2 length lift he says he could make (though he doesn't think I'd like it as much). I might have him do that to my oldest sandals.

[badgercat]

melissam, I should have mentioned before that if you are thinking about ordering a pair, make sure you try on some pairs in a store and walk around for a while before you do! My local outdoor store in Wisconsin carried them, but they also sell them at REI. They don't come in half-sizes, and I wear 8.5 normally and wound up with an 8 in Chacos, but my old roommate usually wore a 6.5 and wears a 7 in Chacos. It seems like their fit is as dependent on your arches as the overall length of your foot... I actually almost wound up with a 7 Wide, but decided I needed a little bit more bumper for my clumsy feet.

KnottedYet, It sounds like your local guy is a gem... was he a lucky find, or did you have to shop around before you found someone you really liked working with? May I ask, generally, how much you've paid for your custom lifts at a local shop? I'm just trying to get a ballpark for when I start looking for a local place out here to maybe get lifts in some running shoes, hiking boots, etc.

The ability to be re-soled is super-important to me... I wear down my shoes at the heel very quickly, so I think my Chacos will need to be resoled every couple of years with as much as I wear them. I remember asking David about it back when I was ordering and he said when lifted shoes got sent in for re-soles, Chaco would do the 'regular' shoe, and then forward them on to him to re-sole the lifted one. I might contact their service folks directly and ask if they'd handle shoes with a "non-David" lift. Your idea of just getting soles from Chaco and having your local guy do it is a good one as well.

I'm wondering if it would be reasonable to contact David and say "Hey, I've been pretty happy so far, but would be a lot happier if..." and see if there's anything he can do to make my shoe more flexible. On the one hand, it seems crazy to wait over a year to bring up issues like that, but on the other hand, I didn't really know any different back then! And he was very flexible back then and told me he stands behind all his work...

Anyway, as this thread was originally about LLDs as they relate to cycling... um... well... oops.

[KnottedYet]

I cycle in my Chacos!
(there, now it's cycling related again!)

The shoe repair shop I went to does a lot of work for the orthopedic surgeons and podiatrists in Seattle.... so he's not cheap, but it does seem to be worth it! My work of art lift was $50. A half-length lift would be about $20 or $30. He says he could also lift my Keen sandals and shoes, but they're ok with the adhesive lift-stacks I have in them now. I took in a bunch of shoes and he told me which ones would be good lifted and which ones would melt or fall apart.

Other repair shops would charge less, but I really like this guy. My LLD is pretty minimal (1/2 inch) so I get by with in-shoe heel lifts or just go without for the most part.