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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    I'm the only one allowed to whine
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    10,557

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    I'm sorry you got hit! And I'm very surprised the police just blew the whole thing off. If you need help finding advocacy, maybe try getting ahold of Cascade Bicycle Club and see if they can help? www.cascade.org

    When an intersection looks too hairy for me to be comfortable riding through on the road like a car, I get off the bike and walk through in the crosswalk.

    The nice thing about using the "now I'm a vehicle/now I'm a pedestrian" technique is that in weird visibility conditions like you had with the SUV, I can (and often do) push the bike *ahead* of me as I walk, so cars on the other side of a blocking vehicle see the bike's front end first, then me walking behind it.

    That also helps with cars who want to turn right on red. The bike enters the crosswalk first as I push it by the saddle, and the right turners realize they can't turn right yet.

    Actually, I feel safer walking in a crosswalk pushing the bike than I do walking alone. The bike is like a big signal flag and takes up space!
    "If Americans want to live the American Dream, they should go to Denmark." - Richard Wilkinson

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    943
    (((((RR))))) I am so glad you are ok!

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    3,151
    Very glad UROK !!!

    Twice in two weeks I"ve had drivers ask me about right turns and cyclists they've hit or almost hit (in the former, only damage to the bicycle) - in both cases, the bicycle was coming from across the street on the crosswalk, riding. In the latter, it's a lady from the UK who totally did not understand why a cyclist would be on pedestrian turf riding at bicycle speed and giving the glower when she "dared" make her turn. I told her the whole right-of-way thing in that situation was ambiguous (in the first case, it was a right turn on red so we surmised that a judge might have decided that no matter what, the car was supposed to yield, period; I didn't think to ask in the latter whether it was a stop sign or traffic light).
    At any rate, I have also hopped off and walked (in one of our intersections because it's faster as well as safer... it's a *long* cycle with a 35 second "pedestrians only" period in the middle of campus).

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Riding my Luna & Rivendell in the Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    8,411
    Quote Originally Posted by RockyRaquel View Post
    Thank you for all of your replies! We had dodged the first car that was taking a right into the cross walk - that slowed us down and we also had to go around an SUV that was hanging out into the crosswalk then BAM! I got hit on the far right lane...I remember the traffic light turning yellow right before I got hit which should have given plenty of time for us to make it through to finish. All of the other cars were stopped and waiting for us. The police and ambulance came to the scene but the police sided with the driver and neither of us got a ticket. I am so angry about this because she clearly ran a red light and was apologizing right after it happened. She said she had a green and that she couldn't see us (that SUV was blocking her view and they were no where to be found after it all happened)

    This definitely sounds like an intersection that you should WALK your bike across. Think of it as good practice in hopping on and off your bike.
    When in doubt, transform yourself into a pedestrian. Don't depend on 'right-of-way', it's never worth it, since drivers so often don't see cyclists. On a dangerous intersection, you might also consider waiting through til the next light until your light just turns green and all cars have stopped, thus completely avoiding the always-dangerous 'yellow light situation' that you found yourself in.
    There are little ways to avoid 95% of dangerous biking situations.
    Ride safe.
    Lisa
    My mountain dulcimer network...FOTMD.com...and my mountain dulcimer blog
    My personal blog:My blog
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  5. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    1,315
    It is fairly common to have a cyclist on the right shoulder, bike lane, or in a crosswalk be hit by motorists making right turns. Now, if someone is in the crosswalk, drivers are supposed to yield. Some states apparently make the cyclist walk the bike, and I guess that could be true whenever there's a ban on riding on sidewalks, but that was not the case for the OP. So, she didn't do anything wrong by cycling in the crosswalk, with a walk signal. The driver was completely at fault for not yielding, though I am not at all surprised by the officer's approach to the situation.

    Still, it is the safest thing when you're in slow-moving traffic to be in the road, and in the middle to left side of the lane where you're approaching an intersection where lots of people turn right. This allows you to more easily get around people who take you by surprise and turn right in front of you without signaling, and it makes the person behind you wait for you before turning, instead of trying to cut you off or flat out running you over. If cars are going slowly and turning, there is nothing wrong with "impeding" traffic flow by staying away from the far right side of the lane. Of course, if you're going to take the lane, it helps to keep behaving like a car for the rest of the congested stretch of road--not squeezing between traffic and parked cars or at the curb if you can help it and then darting back into the lane.

    Anyway, I'm not sure how much you can do in terms of getting your injuries covered and whatnot since the vehicle wasn't cited. If you have the driver's insurance information, that could help, but without a favorable police report, I'm not sure you can make them do anything for you, unfortunately.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    8,548
    It's not clear to me from what she said as to whether or not a police officer was ever at the scene.
    The last accident I was in we had to threaten the lady who caused the accident because she wanted to leave. It took the police a full hour to arrive at the scene. (this was a 3 vehicle no bikes accident)
    Mimi Team TE BIANCHISTA
    for six tanks of gas you could have bought a bike.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sammamish, WA
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by mimitabby View Post
    It's not clear to me from what she said as to whether or not a police officer was ever at the scene.
    The last accident I was in we had to threaten the lady who caused the accident because she wanted to leave. It took the police a full hour to arrive at the scene. (this was a 3 vehicle no bikes accident)
    Yes, a police officer was the last to come to the scene. It was on the border of two cities (Redmond and Bellevue, WA). Redmond came first then left and Bellevue police were called. She was very rude and kept saying she had other things she had to do than argue with us over what happened. It seems like police are not siding with victims anymore...Also, it is ok for a cyclist to ride their bike across the crosswalk - in our case there was no bike lane and just a side walk or the street where people go 35 miles per hour. Next time I will get off my bike and walk it across the street!!

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Riding my Luna & Rivendell in the Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    8,411
    When you get more experience cycling you might find that riding on the road proper with the cars is less dangerous and unpredictable than riding on sidewalks and crosswalks. In the meantime, yes do get off your bike and walk it across the crosswalk along with the pedestrians. The most important thing is to be safe.
    Again, I'm glad you were not seriously hurt.
    Lisa
    My mountain dulcimer network...FOTMD.com...and my mountain dulcimer blog
    My personal blog:My blog
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Folsom CA
    Posts
    5,667
    Here are a couple of websites with excellent instructions on how to ride roads safely.

    http://bicyclesafe.com/

    http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/index.htm

    2009 Lynskey R230 Houseblend - Brooks Team Pro
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  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Wellesley, MA
    Posts
    361
    Really scary- is it me or have people forgotten how to drive with a bicyclist around? Maybe it's just that I grew up in a small bike friendly town. I honestly thought it is illegal to bike on sidewalks (not that I and other people don't do it). I try to stay in the roads and be brave, but there's one patch near our house on a 4 lane road that has sooo many patches and dips to sewer drains in the nonexistent shoulder that has a beautiful paved path next to it that most people ride there instead.

    As for right turns, this seems to be a prevalent problem- I was watching CBS Sunday Morning yesterday and even Portland (land of bikers galore) has put in Green boxes at lights so the bikes can move in front of the cars to wait so the drivers have to see them. Really great idea IMHO.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Flagstaff AZ
    Posts
    2,516
    There were some comments here that it is legal to ride a bike in a cross walk. In my state, Arizona, this is illegal. If you want to use the crosswalk to get across an intersection, you must dismount and walk across as if you were a walking pedestrian. The reason is that you are moving faster on a bike than a pedestrian and could zip out into the intersection quicker and not be seen by a car, or move too fast for a car to see you before it could brake.

    I'm really sorry that you got hit and its sounds like you were soundly in the crosswalk before you got hit so it was probably the car's fault, but if the law is the same in WA as it is here, you may have a hard time fighting that in court.

    This is why I am always a proponent of ride like a car, act like a car, be predictable, cross intersections just like you would if you were driving a car. This avoids confusion and you are predictable. It may seem to you as being less safe, but I have found that this is the safest choice in almost any situation. If you deem the intersection is too unsafe, get off and walk your bike across. That way, there will be no argument if someone does hit you as a pedestrian.

    spoke

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    4,364
    Quote Originally Posted by spokewench View Post
    'm really sorry that you got hit and its sounds like you were soundly in the crosswalk before you got hit so it was probably the car's fault, but if the law is the same in WA as it is here, you may have a hard time fighting that in court.
    The law is different in different places. I do not advocate sidewalk riding - I think its dangerous for myriad reasons *but* in WA state unless specifically prohibited (this is usually only in downtown business districts and on some university campuses) a bike is legally allowed on the sidewalk and is legally a pedestrian if walked or ridden in a crosswalk or on a sidewalk. The driver was clearly in the wrong in this case and it is a shame that the police officer did not take it seriously. The next time she runs a red light (which RR said she did) she may severely injure someone or worse.

    RCW 46.61.755
    Every person riding a bicycle upon a sidewalk or crosswalk must be granted all of the rights and is subject to all of the duties applicable to a pedestrian by this chapter.


    RCW 46.61.235
    Crosswalks.
    (1) The operator of an approaching vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian or bicycle to cross the roadway within an unmarked or marked crosswalk when the pedestrian or bicycle is upon or within one lane of the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning. For purposes of this section "half of the roadway" means all traffic lanes carrying traffic in one direction of travel, and includes the entire width of a one-way roadway.
    Last edited by Eden; 07-28-2008 at 06:46 PM.
    "Sharing the road means getting along, not getting ahead" - 1994 Washington State Driver's Guide

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  13. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    the dry side
    Posts
    4,365
    Quote Originally Posted by spokewench View Post
    There were some comments here that it is legal to ride a bike in a cross walk. In my state, Arizona, this is illegal. If you want to use the crosswalk to get across an intersection, you must dismount and walk across as if you were a walking pedestrian. The reason is that you are moving faster on a bike than a pedestrian and could zip out into the intersection quicker and not be seen by a car, or move too fast for a car to see you before it could brake.

    I'm really sorry that you got hit and its sounds like you were soundly in the crosswalk before you got hit so it was probably the car's fault, but if the law is the same in WA as it is here, you may have a hard time fighting that in court.

    This is why I am always a proponent of ride like a car, act like a car, be predictable, cross intersections just like you would if you were driving a car. This avoids confusion and you are predictable. It may seem to you as being less safe, but I have found that this is the safest choice in almost any situation. If you deem the intersection is too unsafe, get off and walk your bike across. That way, there will be no argument if someone does hit you as a pedestrian.

    spoke
    ditto - in the Effective Cyclist classes taught around here by the Bicycle Advisory Council, it's emphasized that you can be a vehicle, or a pedestrian, but not both. It's taught to not use the crosswalks unless dismounted and following the lights, as it's confusing for vehicles; they are looking for pedestrians, not bicycles. The preferred method that they teach is to use the lane like any vehicle.

    I am sorry you got hit, that's a bummer for anyone.

 

 

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