Pointing at Drivers?

[bcipam]

I belong to a large cycling group in Orange County, CA. This whole discussion comes up time and time again. Bottom line, we are under the law, considered to be vehicles and must obey all traffic laws, including stopping at stop signs, using hand signals etc. Most formal riding groups are very good at doing this. They will point towards the direction of a turn, will hold out their arms and hands to notify and signal to drivers that they are riding through, call out hazards etc. My group, unfortunately is not so formal and alot of riders just follow along and in an effort to stay with the lead riders, will blow through signs and even stop lights.

I try to stop btu confess through residential neighbors will only slow down. I signal my turns and I also hold my arm out to drivers to get their attention and let them know when I'm riding through. One example or riders pissing me and motorist off. I stopped at a 4 way stop. The driver had the right of way and I motioned them through. Just as the car started forward, two riders came from behind me, did not stop, and made a left turn right in front of the driver. The driver had to hit his brakes and gave me a nasty look. I later caught up to those riders and gave them a piece of my mind (and since there is so little left I hate to do this).

I really don't like to hear riders shouting or pointing at cars. The action can be misunderstood. We just have to be more diligent than cars in watching traffic and making sure it is safe to proceed. We all have to be good-will representatives of the cycling community and act politely and with courtesy.

[slinkedog]

I really don't like to hear riders shouting or pointing at cars. The action can be misunderstood. We just have to be more diligent than cars in watching traffic and making sure it is safe to proceed. We all have to be good-will representatives of the cycling community and act politely and with courtesy.

I totally agree that we have to be more careful on bikes and that we have to be good representatives of the cycling community. However, if I'm in a situation where I'm about to get hit because someone in a car isn't watching and I can't stop in time, I will most certainly yell at them or do whatever necessary to avoid an accident. It's like my version of a horn on a car.

[RoadRaven]

I belong to a large cycling group in Orange County, CA. This whole discussion comes up time and time again. Bottom line, we are under the law, considered to be vehicles and must obey all traffic laws, including stopping at stop signs, using hand signals etc.

Absolutely agree
We must obey the law as we are required to - same application of road rules in this country too


*big sigh*
Wouldn't it be nice if the cars recognised we have road rights too, such as a legal right to ride 2 abreast
*slips into daydream mode*

[bcipam]

*big sigh*
Wouldn't it be nice if the cars recognised we have road rights too, such as a legal right to ride 2 abreast
*slips into daydream mode*

Is that a legal right ot ride two abreast out into the traffic lane?

Cyclists (at least in Calif) are required to ride as close to the curb as safely possible as not to impede the traffic lane and the flow of traffic. Not right (or legal) that we ride out into the lane and make cars go around us. No wonder motorists always want to cut us off. Trust me I run into stupid drivers all the time (the worse for me is when I move out of a right turn lane only to let those drivers turning right go into the lane and they still instead go around on the left and cut me off). But then again, I also sometimes do stupid things and I would hope the driver gives me the benefit of the doubt and understands I made a mistake, I didn't turn in from of them on purpose.

Think of it this way... how much nicer would your ride be if you assumed that the cars had the right of way and planned for that? No sense getting upset or angry. Better to be a good citizen so drivers aren't scared or pissed off at us. It is a two way street. How would you like it if some cyclists started gesturing and yelling at you and you had no idea or clue why? And there are alot of stupid cyclist out there. Trust me, my road club is full of them. They routinely run stop signs, make left turns on red lights in front of vehicles, block turn lanes, take up the traffic lane. No wonder motorists don't like dealing with us...

which is why I mountain bike more and more....

[jobob]

Sorry I annoyed you, Grog, it wasn't my intention. I often get too didactic. I'll reign it in.

- Jo.

[Grog]

Sorry I annoyed you, Grog, it wasn't my intention. I often get too didactic. I'll reign it in.

No no - it's allright.

You actually make a pretty good point. Although I disagree that "the law" must be the most important factor in any decision, I am always thinking - especially when I'm commuting - that if all of those people commuting on the bike were driving cars, it would be awfully dangerous out there. Most seem to totally ignore that the traffic laws apply to them, too. Or even just basic courtesy. Stop signs, traffic lights, all of these they don't care about. Moreover, while a few of us politely wait in line at a stop light, some freak rides right in front of all of us and into the incoming car lane and often put the others in danger too. If they could just think about the law and nothing else, that would be a good start. But last time I was a cop on a bike he was riding on the sidewalk so... no motivation will come from there.

[RoadRaven]

Is that a legal right ot ride two abreast out into the traffic lane?

In Aotearoa New Zealand it is legal
Bicycles should be treated with all the respect one should give a car, and riding two abreast is legal...

However, legality doesn't stop intolerance and impatience on some driver's parts

[Irulan]

Is that a legal right ot ride two abreast out into the traffic lane?

Cyclists (at least in Calif) are required to ride as close to the curb as safely possible as not to impede the traffic lane and the flow of traffic. Not right (or legal) that we ride out into the lane and make cars go around us. No wonder motorists always want to cut us off. Trust me I run into stupid drivers all the time (the worse for me is when I move out of a right turn lane only to let those drivers turning right go into the lane and they still instead go around on the left and cut me off). But then again, I also sometimes do stupid things and I would hope the driver gives me the benefit of the doubt and understands I made a mistake, I didn't turn in from of them on purpose.

Think of it this way... how much nicer would your ride be if you assumed that the cars had the right of way and planned for that? No sense getting upset or angry. Better to be a good citizen so drivers aren't scared or pissed off at us. It is a two way street. How would you like it if some cyclists started gesturing and yelling at you and you had no idea or clue why? And there are alot of stupid cyclist out there. Trust me, my road club is full of them. They routinely run stop signs, make left turns on red lights in front of vehicles, block turn lanes, take up the traffic lane. No wonder motorists don't like dealing with us...

which is why I mountain bike more and more....

funny, in this thread all I can think about is my poor 75 year old mother who lives on a narrow, windy road in Sonoma county that is heavily used by road cyclists. It is a completely common occurance for groups of roadies to NOT go to single file when there are vehicles approaching from behind. They will stay 3-5 abreast with complete disregard for the vehicles on the road. My poor mother lacks the balls to pass them on this road, (with good reason, it's a series of blind corners and she'd have to go into the other lane) which means she follows behind for a mile or more until she reaches her driveway. Groups of cyclists pulling this kind of thing is the worst sort of passive/aggressive riding. What kind of point are riders like this trying to make?

irulan

[jobob]

Groups of cyclists pulling this kind of thing is the worst sort of passive/aggressive riding. What kind of point are riders like this trying to make?

Darned if I know - all they do is tick off drivers and that's no good for any of us.

- Jo "single file" bob

[Crankin]

Interesting subjects here. I just got back from Hilton Head, SC, where they really do enforce the law that cyclists have to be on a bike path if there is one. We were in an area that had tons of paths filled with people who haven't ridden for 20 years on cruisers, joggers, walkers. It was obviously dangerous for my husband and I to be cycling on this path. We got pulled over by the cops twice and just about arrested when i told him we had the right to be on the road; went and checked on the internet and apparently we did not have the right to be on the road. I don't take well to mean redneck cops who are 50 pounds overweight. Later I took my mountain bike on the path to get to a nature preserve; talk about getting pissed off! I was going about 10-12 and had many near collisions. I swear, I never yelled so much, even though i kept saying on your left, bike passing, etc.
I live near mostly country roads, but there's a fair amount of suburban traffic where i usually ride. I have no problem putting my arm out with the stop sign if i think someone is going to do something funky. I also stop if i feel like they won't see the arm. I'm pretty lucky; there are tons of cyclists here in Massachusetts and especially in the area where i live, most people are polite. My worst thing was on a commute home from work, someone was backing out of their driveway and i knew he didn't see me, despite the fact there were 2 others in the yard who did. I yelled really loud and he stopped. I agree with the 2 riding abreast. Some towns around here are starting to give tickets to large cycling groups who do this. It's dangerous and I see their point.

[Tar-Cat]

Is that a legal right ot ride two abreast out into the traffic lane?

I thought it was legal if cyclists needed to take the whole lane for safety reasons. Like if two are riding along and come up on a really curvy section of road, they could ride two abreast to increase visibility. If I'm mistaken, please let me know!

[DeniseGoldberg]

Is that a legal right ot ride two abreast out into the traffic lane?

I thought it was legal if cyclists needed to take the whole lane for safety reasons. ...If I'm mistaken, please let me know!

I suggest you check the vehicle code for your state. I live in Massachusetts, and riding 2 abreast is not legal here.

From the General Laws of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Chapter 85: Section 11B Bicycles; operation and equipment; regulations; federal product safety standards, effect; races; violations; penalties

Operators of bicycles shall be subject to the following regulations:
(1) The operator shall ride single file on any way except when passing.

But what I found interesting is that I couldn't find a reference to where a bicyclist should ride relative to the road. As in, close to the right, or in the center of the lane, or... I generally stay as far to the right as I feel is safe, but far enough out in the road that drivers know that I am there and that they will need to go around me. If I feel that conditions are unsafe to ride to the side of the lane, then I move closer to the center of the lane. I'm with Corsair in that I do whatever I can do to be safe among those (powered) vehicles that are much bigger than I am.

Here's a link to bike regulations in all states: http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/statelaws.htm, and another for regulations in Canada and France & UK: http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/intl_laws.htm.

--- Denise

[Gabby]

Here in my part of Florida we have either well built bike lanes or paths off the side of the road. I find most of my problems crossing intersections; the drivers here do not seem to pay attention to the pedestrian crossing lane even with me 1/2 way through waiting for the left turn traffic light to go red.

I enjoying riding the road though, in FL my understanding (if it has not changed) is that we get 4 inches from the white line for riding. Only time I get nervous is with the dump trucks going past me, normally on 2 lane roads they move over away from me.

I normally try to make sure the driver has seen me and is yielding before I move through their path; I have been known to yell from time to time.